Touched Out! A Mental Health Podcast for Parents
Welcome to Touched Out! A Mental Health Podcast for Parents, where we explore the profound intersection of mental health and parenthood through raw, unfiltered, and emotional conversations. Hosted by Carter, a fellow parent navigating the challenges of mental health, this podcast provides a genuine look into the realities of parenting and self-care.
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Theme music written and performed by Ben Drysdale ©2025: www.bendrysdalemusic.com
Touched Out! A Mental Health Podcast for Parents
My Brain is a Race Car | Neurodivergent Parenting With Nell Harris
Nell, a bestselling children's author-illustrator, brings her refreshing perspective on neurodiversity to this heartfelt conversation about parenting, creativity, and breaking generational cycles. After receiving her own ADHD and autism diagnoses as an adult, Nell transformed her experiences into groundbreaking children's books that explain neurodivergent traits through feelings rather than clinical terminology.
"I grew up just wanting to be able to focus... just wanting to be the potential that everyone supposedly could see in me," Nell shares, describing the self-loathing that drove her to create resources ensuring her own children wouldn't face the same struggles. Her series—including "My Brain is a Race Car," "My Body Has a Bubble," and "My Feelings Are Waves"—presents neurodiversity as simply different neurotypes rather than conditions needing fixing, connecting with children through emotional experiences rather than diagnostic criteria.
The conversation beautifully explores how both hosts navigate parenthood with neurodivergent brains, teaching their children self-advocacy skills they never received growing up. From explaining personal boundaries through "hard bubbles" to helping children recognize when they need mindful days, Nell demonstrates how her lived experience translates into practical parenting tools. There's raw honesty about body image, communication challenges in relationships, and the powerful ways children perceive beauty differently than adults programmed by societal expectations.
Most striking is their shared commitment to breaking cycles of "children should be seen and not heard" parenting they experienced, embracing instead a model where feelings are validated, needs are met without shame, and neurodivergent traits are celebrated rather than suppressed. Nell's creative approach—developed through her own journey from tattoo artist to acclaimed author—offers hope and practical wisdom for parents navigating similar paths.
Curious about Nell's books or approach? Find her neurodiversity-focused children's books at www.nellharris.com or check out her social channels where she generously shares readings and resources for aspiring creators.
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We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of this land we pay our respects to the elders, past, present and emerging, for they hold the memories, the traditions and the culture of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people across the nation.
Speaker 2:So I've had honestly like a terrible relationship with my body up until becoming a parent, but still the thoughts creep back in. So my daughter's sitting there and she's squishing my tummy and I can feel self-consciousness, but I don't let that translate. And then she said something she was like you know, I hope when I grow up I've got a squishy tummy like you. And I was like, oh, thank you.
Speaker 3:When mommy was a little girl and mommy left her dad, and when daddy was a boy he got bullied really bad. When mommy met daddy they thought something either had. Then mommy became a mommy and dad became a dad. Now you're screaming at your brother in his Lego underfoot. We're trying to do the best we can, but it's not very good. Daddy's really sorry. He didn't mean to shout. We all get a little touchdown Touchdown. We all get a little. We all get a little touchdown Touchdown. We all get a little. We all get a little. We all get a little touchdown.
Speaker 1:Touchdown. Okay, so today we have Nell. Nell is an amazingly talented author and illustrator and she lives just south of Adelaide. How are you going today, nell?
Speaker 2:Good, thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:You're more than welcome. I'm really, really excited for this episode. We've been teeing it up for about a month now and been back and forth and we've been having some great conversations in between, but when it always comes time to record, there's children's sicknesses and everything like that. I feel like it's a very, very normal theme in this podcast Recording with parents and stuff. It's always that give and take, so I appreciate you being here with me today. Why don't we start off with a little bit about yourself and your family?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no problem, so my name is Mel Thank you for introducing me and I am an author and illustrator of children's books. I call them like my neurodiversity without all the terminology series, and I talk about just like neurodivergent traits and experiences from a feelings point of view rather than it being so clinical and factual, and I'm sure like we'll talk about this more later, but it has been as an adult. It's been so empowering to kind of get the words to the feelings. But when you're four or five or six, the big words or the clinical words or the justification words don't really matter. We live in a feelings thing as a kid and it's only like as we get older. So that's why I write my books, like as we get older. So that's why I write my books and I'm so grateful for the kind reception of them because there is so many amazing books out there about neurodiversity and experiences.
Speaker 2:But I really do think that it's a little bit unique to just be talking about it from a firsthand feelings perspective. So I'm definitely not stepping out of my realm, if that makes sense. I really want to your field of knowledge. Yeah, that's right, I really want to talk from a firsthand perspective because I'm finding that that's where a lot of the misinformation happens is when we're being told how we're feeling, we're being told what this experience is and completely missing the mark. There's so many things I've read and so many studies I've read where I'm like you have not experienced this sensation or you haven't gone through something like this, because there's no, there's no understanding there, and so that's that's what I really just want to do yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:I think. I think your books really, really hit this, this incredibly important niche of explaining things like neurodiversity and ADHD without the clinical standpoint. It's all well and good to seek the clinical information and be informed and learn about yourself from like a scientific or psychological point of view, but there's always this nuance and it's equally important to just allow feelings to be feelings instead of having it be described to you or explained to you from a trained standpoint, from an educational standpoint. I think that a lot of what your books are doing operate in the gray areas of life, and those gray areas are just absolutely paramount in learning more about yourself.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, thank you, that's exactly it. I want to talk about the human experience and I'm in the camp where and I think we've talked about this, but I'm in the camp where it's a neurotype. Having an autistic brain, having an ADHD brain, having a neurodivergent brain, it's just a different neurotype. It's not something that needs to be fixed. It's not something that's broken. It's not anything other than this is how your brain works and to live most harmoniously with yourself. These are the things you need to do to look after your brain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. So we'll start off with, because you and I are quite alike in our diagnosis later in life, so you are also autistic and ADHD.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:When were you diagnosed and ADHD yes, when were you diagnosed?
Speaker 2:So my autism diagnosis came through at the start of this year, with my ADHD diagnosis coming in a couple of years before that. So I guess I found, you know, like I feel like ADHD is definitely driving the car and then, once I kind of understood that, unpacked that, started working and optimizing myself. Then that's when all these other traits started coming up and I'm like, oh, what do I do? Why am I so particular on this? Or, you know, I thought that I'd kind of worked myself out and completely, had mathed myself out into this, but why? You know, why is changing one tiny thing on a menu at a restaurant causing me to have an absolute meltdown and then never going to that restaurant ever again in my life.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and I think that that's something that does happen quite a lot. I do find that ADHD and autism seem to definitely be, you know, in that same spectrum and it's just the way that our traits present and that's what comes forward. So that was definitely a learning journey, because that just wasn't even something that was on my radar and it was actually my daughter's pediatrician. That was just. Like you know, the apple hasn't rolled far from the tree, yeah.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like your experience is pretty, pretty similar to mine. So my son was diagnosed with a global developmental delay and then autism and then, shortly thereafter, I was diagnosed ADHD and I was medicated for the ADHD and because of that medication it leveled out my ADHD and then, as you said, adhd is the driving factor, whereas autism that passenger. It seems that once I was medicated, the passenger decided to grow some balls and just like demand the auxiliary cord and just start playing the same music over and over and I was like who the fuck am I? What the fuck is going on?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and that playing the same music, like 2012, m83 dropped Midnight City and I tell you I be spotify's top listener for that one. It is such a bop and I just I don't know why it's not like anything else I listen to, but it just I don't know the noises in that. They just hit right but it is, it's been so, it has been, it's been a whole nother journey. And there is, you know, I guess, having that ADHD diagnosis. You know the ADHD. Like you know, I love spontaneity and things like that, but I also like to have a rigid routine and know exactly what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I am exactly the same. There's days where I just long for adventure and just to like piss off somewhere and do whatever. And then the second I tease that a little bit more I'm like nope, I'm pretty good here, just daydreaming about it was enough for me. Now I'm just going to lay on the couch for 12 hours and recover from my daydreaming.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I remember I had, and this was like before my diagnosis, and this is where you know going in and having that diagnosis, and, like I'm definitely someone who, even though I do have my formal diagnoses, I felt that that was important for me and because I did also want to try medication as a support for my ADHD, because mine is internalized, so mine's all. It's not so much outwardly impulsive actions, it's just my brain is so active and to the point where I can't sleep and obviously, being creative and being a creator, I'll have like 15, 20 different projects going at once and I couldn't hone in on anything, which would then just make me go into this stasis and stop. So that's why I sought that. But I do genuinely believe that in this economy and in this medical system that there is validity in a self-diagnosis, because it's financially and time-wise near impossible to access at the moment.
Speaker 1:Can you tell me a little bit about your family? How many kids have you got?
Speaker 2:Yes, so I live just south of Adelaide in like a really tiny little beach town too on the Fleurier Peninsula, which is really nice and quiet. We don't even have mailboxes or a postie that comes around. So I really that was like such a selling factor for me, for my house, cause I'm like you mean, no one's just going to come and knock on my door like on random days, cause I also do love to online shop, because not going into shopping centers is aces. So yeah, the fact that this town has no letter boxes or anything is just the most magical thing for me.
Speaker 2:And so I live here with my partner, who he was diagnosed with ADHD as a child and it was really interesting because obviously that then gave me what my perception of what ADHD is. And he is that real classic. You know backflips off the fence into pools of parties and you know I think back to like our teenage years and our early 20s and honestly I don't even know how I have him or I have my kids, because he survived so long to give me kids like he was. He should be a statistic really, like he's mellowed out a lot now and really worked on himself and reined that in, but he was definitely that impulsive, dangerous adventures kind of guy risk taker.
Speaker 1:Yes, it doesn't it doesn't help. I'm assuming that your partner's probably around the same age as us, or mid-30s kind of thing. Yep, so he would have grown up with jackass as his, um as his guiding light much like me I've I've broken majority of the bones in my body yeah, yeah, that definitely has been his north star.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, the amount of injuries. We'll just um with my daughter. She had an accident on the monkey bars just recently and we were talking about x-rays and they were asking dad what parts of his body has had x-rays and the list got so long that we kind of started flipping around to what hasn't been x-rayed so, yeah, yeah, it would be a shorter list for me as well.
Speaker 1:Anytime my kids hurt themselves, they come to me because they just know that I'll probably know what it's like yeah, even yesterday I was, um, I was doing the dishes and I sliced my finger open on the bloody cheese grater. Yeah, my kids are bloody morbid, they're obsessed with blood. So they were like, did you take a photo? And I was like, yeah, of course I took a fucking photo. If I didn't take a photo, it didn't happen.
Speaker 2:So they're like did I say it?
Speaker 1:A four-year-old and a three-year-old being like whoa, that's a lot of blood, dad. And then my god bless my uh, well, not even god bless yuck. I don't know why I say that. Um, my, my three-year-old roman goes dad, make sure you don't do that again. Okay, you have to be careful. You have to look after your body. I'm like boy oh boy. I wish you had have told me that when I was 12.
Speaker 2:yeah, like, look at that um perception and that awareness and that that is actually so beautiful. Oh, he's gorgeous, go him um. Yeah, it's like with that morbidity. I find that so interesting with my girls too. They have this like really hyper fixation on cemeteries. They want to know everything about cemeteries. They drove past once and it was, there was a funeral happening and they're like, what's that party?
Speaker 3:and I'm like, well, it's not really a funeral happening. And they're like, what's that party?
Speaker 2:And I'm like well, it's not really a party. And I'm like so, when you know, when someone dies, they take them to a cemetery. And then my eldest is like so it's a dead bed. And I'm like that is the best name I've ever heard. Yes, it's a dead bed.
Speaker 1:Perfect, that's where you sleep. My daughter, hendrix, also has a fascination with cemeteries. Every time we drive past one I try to video her, but she always cottons on.
Speaker 2:But yeah, every time we drive past when I'm not recording, she goes dad, that's where, that's where people, people get buried after they're dead just say it's so like intensely, bluntly, and you're like we're meant to dance around this factor of, like you know, mortality, but these kids are just like it is what it is and I'm like that's so cool yeah, I, I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't dance around death. I myself have a disgraceful fear of death and just the mere thought of it can reduce me to tears, but I want my to. I talk to my kids how I would talk to an adult. I don't dance around shit. If they ask me a question about my penis, I'm going to tell them the answer about my penis. You know, when we dance around these topics, that creates this weird divide and then, once they're older, that's going to create, you know, shame and all of that shit that we don't need. You know, and there's it's so.
Speaker 1:It's so weird coming in or like living in this world post-parenthood versus before you were a parent and the way in which you perceive things. Like I remember there was a video that came out years ago, before I was a parent of I think it was an american footballer, tom brady or mike brady or something like that, kissing his son, son, his son's like. I think he was like 10 or 12 and he was having a massage and his son came in and gave him a kiss on the lips and I remember being like that's fucking weird dude, what the fuck. And now that I have three kids who give me kisses on the lips every day. I mean it'll get to a point where they won't want to and that's totally fine because that's their autonomy. But I find nothing weird about it. It's just this stupid social sexualization of children that makes it taboo and weird and I just hate that. I hate it so much.
Speaker 2:No, I do see where you're coming from with that and you know I remember talking to like a mother at school and she's like I would never let my kid wear like you know, like how there's those like cut off oversized shirts, like crop tops or something, and she's like she's seven, she can't wear tardy stuff like that. I'm like it's only tardy because it's in your head Like how cute is a baby belly?
Speaker 1:Like, come on, yeah, 100, really like 100. I um, yeah, I don't get this sexualization and I still see it all the time. You know, I follow a lot of parent tiktoks and all of that jazz and they talk about, you know, sharing with their kids and how they would never do it and whatnot.
Speaker 2:I'm like I fucking share with my kids all the time, like and I think that's a really good thing of just like looping back around to like you know, then, that shame and that taboo and things like. That's a really good thing of just like looping back around to like you know, then, that shame and that taboo and things like that you know, with obviously like growing the kids in my tummy. You know, the skin on my tummy now is softer and like and squishy. And my daughter, she comes out and she's like a cat, she like pads it.
Speaker 2:Mama, your tummy is so soft and I've always, like you know, I've grown up with, like you know that Britney Spears, christina Aguilera, platinum, straight blonde hair, stick thin Paris Hilton, and I've always been like a curvier girl and so I've had honestly like a terrible relationship with my body up until becoming a parent and but still the thoughts creep back in. So my daughter's sitting there and she's squishing my tummy and like I can feel self-consciousness, but I don't let that translate. And then she said something she was like you know, I hope when I grow up I've got a squishy tummy like you, and I was like like yeah, thank you, because they don't know.
Speaker 1:They don't know it's. It's those stupid adult projections on onto kids that create those things. Yeah, don't give a fuck. Kids know you as mom and dad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's the way that we act and the way that we treat each other and other people is where I believe our beauty comes from. And I'm not like saying like I'm the best parent in the world or anything like absolutely not coming in and making that flex, but I think, because I am present and I do love my girls and I tell them that I love them and I, you know, am affectionate and give them cuddles and kisses and stuff, that that's where my beauty comes from, from them. So then, to liken themselves to me and want a squishy tummy at this current age, I think that's the biggest compliment.
Speaker 1:It's beautiful? Yeah, absolutely. I myself have a horrible view of my own body. I've always been kind of the fat kid in school and whatnot. I was bullied relentlessly growing up and I've never had a good relationship with the way I look. But my kids don't see that and they never will Like. Yesterday was 27 here. It was a beautiful day. I walked around topless and got in the pool with them and my son sits there and bloody pulls on my nipples. He calls them penises. He's like Dad, this is your penis and twists my nipple and like inside of me fucking crawls. I'm like God don't touch me. But on the outside I'm just like, yeah, man, no, that's my nipple, that's not my penis, you don't have to squeeze it so hard. That kind of hurts. I'm like bodies are normal, everyone's got one and everyone's is different and we should just make sure, especially for emerging generations and pliable minds, that we're celebrating all bodies and not shaming. Fat's not a word in our house, neither is junk food, it's just sometimes foods. I think it's incredibly important.
Speaker 2:We're the same. I just think I just want to shield and shelter the girls from that as much as I can, for as long as I can, in order to just kind of build up that resilience and strength, like I'm not deluded in the sense that it won't ever cross them, but if I can give them a stronger beginning to that and be a example of it. You know, they don't need to know the internal dialogue or the like you said, like just feeling absolutely, just mortified and just horrid in myself when my daughter's squishing my tummy or things like that, but it's just, yeah, I'm really open with the girls. So that's one thing that I probably don't translate out is those things, because I just don't think they need it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my daughter is very funny. Hendrix, my oldest, she's in this stage where I compliment her all the time on anything I possibly can, and not just like you're such a beautiful girl, I love you, like I make sure. I say you're funny and you're smart and you're caring and everyone wants to be your friend and I just think you're absolutely amazing. But lately she's really really like give him an inch, take a mile, kind of thing, like this last night I, um, I hopped into bed with her and gave her a little cuddle, cause she was a bit sad, she didn't want to go to bed and afterwards she goes dad, after today, which is tomorrow, can we please celebrate me? And I was like what do you mean she, I go.
Speaker 1:How would you like us to celebrate you? Because I feel like I celebrate you every day. I tell you nice things about yourself and I always tell you I love you and I always give you cuddles if you ask for them. How would you like us to celebrate you? She says maybe do some fun things with me. And I said we did fun things all day today, baby. We were in the pool together, we played games together. She goes yeah, but that was with everyone else. I just want, I just want a day after today to just be celebrating me. So I said how about I'll read books to you tomorrow night and we'll celebrate you? She's like yeah, and I just think like, as a four-year-old, her ability to articulate her, her wants and her needs is a chef's kiss.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, and then like that's the one time where I'm so there with you, that's the one time where I really celebrate mine and my partner's parenting. I don't know if I've said it yet, but we've got two girls, seven and five and that's just one of the key things that we really want to do is that we want to give that. Self-advocacy is such a big thing for us. So you know, we have mindful days. Our school is really understanding of our family and our family dynamic, and so the girls know that they can make a call on a mindful day. They also know that they, you know they can't abuse the mindful day request. But if they're feeling run down or burnt out, they say I need a mindful day or even the other little things. Like the little things, or burnt out, they say I need a mindful day or even the other little things, like the little things in my books. You know, my books always got like like kind of like self-advocacy or self little regulation sentences or something like that, and so my stories and stuff don't come from nowhere.
Speaker 2:In my bubble book I talk about, you know, putting a hard bubble up and that's when you like, say that I need space and it's a I've always got my hard arm out, so full arm, hard out, that's the edge of your bubble and you just say stop, I need space and that's all you need to say. You don't need to justify why you need it, you do not need to explain anything. You just firmly, calmly, state you need space. And then if you're not getting respected on that, that's when you take it to the next level, which is like obviously getting a higher power in of some kind and yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's like that's, that's all the stuff that I have been doing and it's it's actually been really cool because I've had a couple of parents tell me stories how their daycare teacher says that they do this like I've got my heart bubble out and I need space. And to hear stories of other children saying what I've taught my girls to say has been like the most surreal experience, and I guess it's like also, I guess, validating to hear that other parents and educators are agreeing with the lessons that I'm giving my girls to to look after themselves and to advocate for themselves. I think, and I think this is probably something that you and I have talked about like personally, but the self-advocacy was not in me as a child. It was like you know that was a punishment self-advocacy If you yeah, if you spoke up, it was not good and you're going to help it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, 100%. It was very much. You know we both would come from the generation that was. Children should be seen and not heard to step outside of that and to discuss your feelings or especially in terms of the way you were treated by your parents, like to speak about that with your parents and maybe speak up and say I don't think that's fair. You know you'd be met with, I'll give you something to bloody cry about and all of those cliche responses.
Speaker 1:Yeah you would definitely Jesus. It's been so hard to unlearn those things, but I think a massive, massive portion of our generation who have now become parents and are kind of doing parenting differently like us. I'm not sure about you, but it has been a common theme amongst conversations with other parents that when parenthood was coming up, you kind of looked at yourself in the mirror and were like what kind of parent am I going to be? And there was always this one constant for me that I was like as long as I am not the parent that my parents were, I think I'll be okay. And it was kind of this driving force not to say that my parents were completely horrible or anything like that. You know, they had their strong points and they had their weak points, just like anyone, they're human.
Speaker 1:Did they make mistakes? Yes. Did they do things that I definitely would not do now? Yes, but they are a product of their upbringing, just like we are a product of our upbringing. The only difference is that now we have the internet and we have millions of communities of people that grew up the way in which we grew up, and we now have essentially a voice. It's a loud voice because enough people have come together on blogs and on social media and realize that there's this commonality. And they're like on social media and realise that there's this commonality and they're like there's better ways of doing it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think also too, with the commonality of parents, us, our generation being no contact with our parents due to trauma and things like that, and I guess that's also put us in our like you know, backed us into our own corner in a good way, in seeing that you know the hurt and the injustice and the well you should just, you know, backed us into our own corner in a good way in seeing that you know the hurt and the injustice and the well you should just, you know they're your mother, you should just forgive them, you should just love them and just really seeing that actually that's not acceptable.
Speaker 2:And I do think that our generation is the beginning of the what do they call that? Like the generational trauma break. As you said, like you know, parents they grew up in, you know their parents were the post-World War II, post-great Depression experience, which would have been really really dark times. And I think you really hit the nail on the head there with having that community and also that accountability of firstly standing up for yourself and seeing that things are not okay and it's okay to not be okay about things that we shouldn't just repress because they are our parents or you know they, they didn't know better. Well, no, they didn't know better, but we and we do have a lot more education today but like little things, like a hug or, and I love you shouldn't need a manual to say that to your kid Like you don't need. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's a tough one and I think a lot of the time. I think about if it would be different. If you know the internet was invented in our parents' generation, would it be any different?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like is that when the turn would have happened and the accountability would have gone. And it is interesting and I find definitely in like neurodivergent, like in neurodivergent communities, there's a lot of us who are getting the late diagnosis because you know well when I all my stuff sits internally. So I may not be a highly active person, but my brain is highly active, which is obviously something that just wasn't recognized. I was just always seen as having so much potential but couldn't focus the attention. And you know, the funniest thing is I got that comment as an adult. The other day I had another adult say to me there's so much potential in you if you just marketed it.
Speaker 1:I was like, oh my gosh, I'm in grade 10, no, I could, I could pull out literally every single one of my report cards and I can guarantee on each and every page there would be Matthew is an incredibly smart, smart young man and he has immense potential, but he does not apply himself and struggles to maintain focus. It's just like how did you miss the ADHD?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's yeah, like I actually have like reports that are, like you know, nell is incredibly bright, very talented, talented but not present, like pretty much lights are on no one's home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just everyone's in the other room like doing other stuff we were just always the social butterflies you know, got along with everyone, but was friends with no one yeah that, and just kind of went between groups and like don't really kind of anchor anywhere.
Speaker 2:But then when you do anchor with someone, then it's like a forever thing, isn't it? Like my best friend, she's neurodivergent as well and she lives up in Brisbane and one thing I find so interesting about neurotypical relationships or friendships is that they can only exist in close proximity properly. Distance weakens them and for my bestie and I, like we've lived apart for the most of the last 10 years in separate states, yet we talk to each other every day. Like she's just a message has just come through this morning wishing me luck for this morning, cause I've obviously told her all about this and we're talking on like five different social platforms and every different social platform is a different conversation but of equal weight and oh, that's such a neurodivergent thing yes, yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 2:It's almost like you're talking to separate people oh my gosh, because she just showed me this show on Netflix called Last Stop Larimer. If anyone's into true crime and then sprinkle a little bit of like Tiger King, but Australian style, you've got a show. I have a gander. Yeah, it's good, it's really good. Love to hear it.
Speaker 1:I want to talk a little bit about your books For my listeners. You have released three books thus far. Is that correct? That's right, yes, I have Okay, so you released. My Brain is a Race Car, my Body has a Bubble and my Feelings are Waves. Did they come out in that order?
Speaker 2:Yes, that's the order they came out in. Unfortunately they're not in the, so it is going to be like a rainbow of a series. So my Brain is a Race Car is my red book, and I wrote that when my eldest got her, when we received her ADHD diagnosis, and I was like you know there was so much for me to unpack and learn that you know I wasn't broken, that my brain was just different, and I just didn't want her to go through that unpacking or that self-resentment Like I grew up, just wanting to be able to focus. I just wanted to be the potential that everyone supposedly could see in me, and just the self-loathing that came with that. Why couldn't I just do this? Why couldn't I just socialize at a house party? Why can't I just be normal? And that was my thoughts growing up and I refused my daughter to have that internalized loathing. I don't think that that is a necessary life experience for her. So her pediatrician sent through her ADHD diagnosis and I was like right, story time. You know she's five. Story time is such like a big thing in our house. I'm going to get a story which will be our conversation opener and then we can talk a little bit more about it.
Speaker 2:And so I hop online and I was looking at all these books for kids about ADHD and every single one of them used the acronym ADHD either in the title or in the book, or called it a condition, or called it a superpower, which you know, that could be a whole nother. Conversation, too, about othering. There is definitely an othering that exists in neurodiversity that needs to get snuffed out fast, in my opinion, and I just I just couldn't find a book because, like you know, I guess this is that like autistic, you know forever forward thinking. But I'm like well, I'll read this book to her and then my daughter's gonna go mom, what does adhd mean? And I'm gonna go. It's going to stand for attention deficit, hyperactivity disorder. And if she understands either any of those four words, two of them are really negative, and it's not that there's an attention deficit, it's an attention surplus that can't be honed or can't be controlled to be honed. When it hones, my gosh, magic does happen, but there is costs that come with that as well.
Speaker 2:That's what I wanted and I was so upset so I never had any intentions of becoming. I used to just make art for others, just commission myself out for others. There was never any intention of becoming an author or illustrator. I'm not the greatest with spelling and grammar, the greatest with spelling and grammar. I do have single load dyslexia, so that makes things a little tricky for me. So that was a post-diagnosis, which that was just something else. I'm always just rushing, I can't, I always spell things wrong and I can't see mistakes because I'm just rushing in life. You know, I'm sitting there going the cat sat on the mat, like really trying to look for the mistakes and still not seeing them.
Speaker 1:My wife has dysgraphia, so that's number dyslexia, and she hasn't been formally diagnosed with dyslexia, but I believe there is a percentage there. I myself very, very, very reliant on spellcheck, autocorrect, everything like that. You know the modern era of telephones, but when I'm at work and I'm messaging like on a computer, I remember when I first started night shift and I was messaging my wife, she was like have you had a stroke? Why are you talking like this? And I've realized that I had just been relying on autocorrect.
Speaker 2:You know when, like, an update comes of autocorrect and you can feel the update because it's not backing you the way it should be and, like messenger, get your game together. I need, I need you to cover my bases because things are not looking like they should.
Speaker 1:I accidentally deleted my autocorrect. Like brain, like you know how it memorizes certain words that you say a lot. Yeah, I accidentally deleted it once and I remember for weeks I was like I don't want to message anyone because I don't want to have to go back and correct, duck back to fuck. I was like it just seems like too much of an effort and I'm not willing to give up saying it, but I don't want to correct it no, I'm, yeah, I'm fine with it.
Speaker 2:Now I'm like this is ducking wild like in message, I don't care anymore. But yeah, so with with that book, and I was. I just remember I was laying in bed and you know, um, just, I was so frustrated. I was just so frustrated and angry with the world that they didn't have existing what I needed.
Speaker 2:And and I and I was just like if only there was just a book that just talked about it, just so simply and and just made it make sense, so simply like, just talking about how, like your brain's like a race car. And because there was this one, there's this one question in the assessment and the question is something like you know, for your child, like, does it feel like your child is run by a motor or that cannot be stopped? And it was just when I looked at that question and I just it really resonated. I was like yes, and I feel that question, like I, that was a question in that questionnaire, because there's so many, like you know, it's a yes or no answer, but I to there's the contextual amendment that I feel that I need to add on, but just that one, that was just the one that I looked at and like that's a yes or no answer and it's a yes and and so like that just kind of really sat with me and I'm just laying in bed and I was like 11 o'clock at night and I'm like, if only this book just existed, that just went.
Speaker 2:Brains are like cars and they they drive around tracks and pick up information and then bring it back. But my brain is a race car, which it's still the same thing, it's not different. A car and a race car are still going to do the same thing. They're going to get you from A to B. Just one can go faster. And that's just all I wanted to do. And then it was almost like it just all downloaded into my brain. Even the art style, like that kind of real postmodern 1950s art style. It was just all there. The cover was there. I'd love to say there was all this strategic planning, but it was just all there in my head.
Speaker 2:So it was like 11 o'clock at night I got up, I quickly typed the poem out into my notes in my phone and then I went to sleep and then I woke up the next morning and it just consumed me and I just parented the day in kind of autopilot, because it was all I was thinking about. As soon as the girls went to bed the next two nights, I just started drawing. I did not sleep and this is that magic happens in hyper-focus, but with the cost. I didn't sleep, I didn't eat, I didn't drink. Like you know, I came out of this dehydrated, exhausted wreck hydrated, exhausted, wrecked. But I made this book in three days and put it onto my daughter's iPad and she loved it. And then I showed it to my friend and she's like you should publish this. And I was like no one else will get it. And she's like just give it a try. And then it made me realize that, yeah, how long ago was that?
Speaker 1:January so you've done three books in less than a year.
Speaker 2:Oh, and you know the thing is in that true neurodivergent multiple ideas thing going, I've got another four sitting in my head.
Speaker 1:We are so, so similar. You're a female, me. This podcast started in February and it was because I felt that there was a gap and there was a need for something like this podcast and I couldn't find anything quite like it. It's not specifically for neurodivergent parents, but it's not not for neurodivergent parents. I found so many resources and so many podcasts about being a parent to kids with special needs or neurodivergent kids, but it wasn't one specifically for parents, by parents, about parents and our upbringings and how that changes the way in which we parent, and you know my diagnosis and all of these different things that just weren't talked about because it's still quite a taboo topic.
Speaker 2:You know, mental health and especially in the sense of parenting and and kind of owning up to struggling people are scared that communities will see them as bad parents if they're not happy and healthy and fucking thriving as parents yeah, and just existing so naturally, like we fight tooth and nail to get to school on time every morning and and like I do think that that and that's what I really do love about your podcast is that it's validating parents in that sense of overwhelm.
Speaker 2:I find so many parents. They sit there and I don't know if this is like going back to what we were talking about before on how we were raised, to repress, like repress our feelings, repress our thoughts, repress our opinions. That's the general consensus of our generation, and so parents are getting so overworked, so weathered down and to the point where they're absolutely at breaking point, where they blow up and blow out and which is, you know, that's a sign of a dysregulated person. But we've, we've been taught all our life and now we've got to fight against that natural urge to go. Hey, actually I'm really overwhelmed today. My cup is empty today. So can we treat me kinder today?
Speaker 2:You know we we allow that space for our kids so much. But it is actually amazing and something I have been really trying to put into practice lately with my girls, where I'm like guys, like, hey, girls, my mommy's cup's feeling a little bit empty today. So if we could have a little bit of a gentler day today, I would really appreciate that. Because we talk about crystals in cups, I don't know Like. I guess normally you put water in cups, but if you've met the girls, crystals are a high factor in our house. So we have crystal cups Awesome and my cup sometimes, you know, and my cup runs out of crystals.
Speaker 2:And I always thought that, like when I first started telling the girls, I was so scared that they thought I would be lesser than Mom's burnt out again. Mom's crystals are missing again. But in turn it's given my daughters more voice too, where I'll have my elders, my elders came out the other day and she's like Mama, I'm feeling a bit delicate today. I'm like, oh, delicate's a really good describing word. She's like, yeah, my crystals are just very, very breakable today and I was like, okay, well, you've really let me know in those words what you're truly feeling on the inside and you know, I'm just such a believer in communicating through feelings and emotions over what should be and what we're supposed to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's also finding what works for you. Yeah, and it's also finding what works for you. Both my wife and I don't do well with like person-to-person confrontation. We instantly get our backs up, we get backed into a corner, which causes us to argue and say really, really hurtful things. That's just how we, you know, that's our defense mechanism, that's our go-to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a protective behavior.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it's like I don't want to deal with this. I'm in fight, flight freeze, fawn, fuck around. I can't remember the rest of them, but I'm very freeze. But I get to a point where I've frozen for a bit. I haven't taken in what has been said to me properly, apart from the negative things. I feel defensive now and I'm fucking angry and it's go time. We're like we're having an argument now and that's not conducive. That's not healthy.
Speaker 1:So my wife and I now, when we have problems with each other, we text it. Yeah, we text it, and so many people outside of our relationship and knowing our dynamic would be like that's not fucking healthy. You should be able to talk to your wife face to face. It's like no, that's not how it works. We're different to you and texting works Like. This morning I asked her to get up to the kids at six o'clock. I have work tonight. My wife has two jobs today and she messaged me and was like hey, I'm like starting to get really angry at you asking me to get up to the kids at six when I've got two jobs today and you're working tonight. You can sleep during the day, even though I have plans during the day, et cetera. It's still technically my sleep time, but I was like, okay, yeah, I understand that. I'm sorry, but if she had said that to my face it would have ended in a big argument.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just looping right back to that. Well, that's, that's not okay, that's not, that's not what we should do in getting that feedback and you're like but this is what works and this is how we're, this is how we function. Because, yeah, like you know, at the end of the day, where there is um, you know, neurodiversity present and that's a different neurotype, so criticism hits differently and we do react to criticism so differently. And you know, immediately, as you're describing that, I'm like yeah, well, you've gone into a state of RSD, and when we go into RSD, we go into protective mode. You know whether that is to burn a bridge so that way they can't access you. That's what we will do in that moment. It's not a conscious choice, it's a protective choice.
Speaker 2:And then afterwards we've got to then go with the. You know like the shame or the embarrassment or that. You know bridge repairing and stuff, and that means control. Yeah, is that healthy? Like you know where, if you it's all conveyed in text and you're like right, you receive that text, you can sit there. The emotion has been removed from the text because it's just the word, so you're just presented with the facts of her feelings and then you can process, that you can process your initial surge of rsd. That you know.
Speaker 2:I know that, like I get if I read something, or you know someone has written something that like I don't love, and I sit there and I process that and it hurts, like it, it physically hurts. And this is another thing that people are like, yeah, words hurt but you get over it. And it's like, no, when you experience RSD, it physically hurts, like your body physically hurts from this. This is like when they say it's like a knife in your back. It's like a knife in your back. There's a physical pain there.
Speaker 2:And to be able to process that and then not have to deal with the pain of the aftermath as well, which then creates this like self-loathing, like why am I always so shit? Why am I always so mean? Why do I always have to overreact to a situation? Why am I this, why am I that? And that's not healthy, that's not normal Working to us and the way we should and our relationship dynamic. We should and our relationship dynamic um, it's the same thing. For, like my partner and I, he used to get so frustrated with me because when I would get into my state of overwhelm I'm someone who does get overwhelmed really easy, and when I overwhelm I go almost non-verbal shutdown this is the only way I can describe it like I can still talk, but I tell you it's, it's a labor to go autopilot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's that absolute bare minimum. I'm exactly the same.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the less I would engage was, the more I was protecting myself, but the more of frustrate my partner. Because he's like I just want to solve this problem, like let's just solve this problem. What's going on? Like, what are you stressed about? And like I'm like, oh, that's adding to my stress now and and where we've taken this learning thing, and he's like he's done amazing work on himself. We've done amazing work in our relationship too. We're so chill in our 30s now and he sees. He sees when I'm in a state of overwhelm, and so now he knows that what I need is space.
Speaker 2:What I need is to not be engaged with. He'll take the lead, he takes the front. He'll grab the girls, go down to shops, get two or three of my favorite meals and bring them home. Just have them there in the fridge for when I'm starting to look for food, which is so much more help than him sitting down going. What do we need? How do we need to solve this? Why are you stressed? What's stressing you out? And where people are like, well, he's not addressing what's upset with you at all. That's not good, that's not healthy, because you need to talk out what's upsetting you where for me I don't actually because I physically can't I do need to retract into my shell, process this and then I can come back out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not only that, but you also need to unjumble your perception of it all and figure out how you're going to word everything delicately and and clearly and concisely. If I do it just verbally, off the cuff, without thinking about it, as I said, I'm only retaining like maybe 10 of what's being said to me, and the rest is just complete white noise. While I'm dealing with a thousand thoughts going through my head, all related to this, but also related to the trauma I suffered growing up and like just once I hit that freeze. All of it just compounds and I'm like fuck, like you're just a piece of shit, yeah yeah, and you're like here, you are failing again.
Speaker 1:Like you know that internal narrative here we go.
Speaker 2:Yep, here we go. You do you, you light this one up. You do you, you, yeah, light this one up. It's not worth it.
Speaker 1:So we message and even if after she messages, I will be like I honour your feelings, I respect what you have sent me. Just give me a little bit of time to figure out how I'm going to reply.
Speaker 2:Yep, and I love that. And you know this is stuff that is a conscious learning for us. You know, our natural reaction is the first one, due to everything like the way we're raised and our and our brain type like, but so that that conscious work is huge for us. And one thing I have learned too, and I'm sure that you found it too, is that one thing that's always got me in trouble is like, so obviously, like I do talk a lot about emotions and stuff, but for me, emotions and facts really can sit in two different camps. So if something's factual, well, a fact is a fact. And that's kind of my full stop where I've like always told how blunt I am, how you like, how, if something, if I say like, if something's a fact, I'll be like, oh well, x, y, z, and people are like whoa, that is so harsh. I'm not being harsh, it's not emotional, I'm not saying it to be mean or anything. And so there's learning how to reign that correctly and still be authentically yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's something. I'm still trying to learn every day. I'm still very much a people pleaser.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which, yeah, I do still very much a people pleaser, yeah, which, yeah, I do. That's, yeah, something that I haven't fully finished unpacking myself yet on how to be authentically me but convey facts without it being seen as harsh for neurotypical people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's it. So the the books that you've written, um, yes, you see, you've got three. You've got four more in the barrel. I understand that you are now considered a best-selling author and illustrator. First of all, congratulations, thank you. It's absolutely amazing and I love that. I think you followed me, or I followed you from Keiko.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Jo and I had our episode together and and then, yeah, I was looking at your stuff and I think I've talked about it on podcast episodes before, but my wife and I also wrote a book during COVID lockdown and, just a little exclusive, nellie's going to be the illustrator of our book, which is super fucking cool yeah. I mean, it was naturally going to happen that we were going to record an episode together, but there's also a continuing friendship and partnership which I'm incredibly excited about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. I think this is another one of those things too. This is one of the amazing sides of having a neurodivergent brain or a different brain is that when you hear these, like we're creative, we're naturally creative and I would love to see the diagnostic criteria instead of going into a deficit base to look at the strengths and stuff. And you know, creativity. I am that cliche person of just being a visual, talking myself down, of being a visual artist, but creativity comes out in so many ways, in so many career paths, in so many forms and when many career paths in so many forms. And when we did talk, when you did kindly share your manuscript with me I'm definitely someone like I really live by the saying inspired people, inspired people, inspired people, inspire people, which is, I think, just one of those like neurodivergent things where someone comes with an idea and you're like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, and then it just like levels up and there's this excitement and this fervor and when I did read your manuscript I was like, wow, this is really cool, I love this project, this is so amazing. And then I think I kind of just info dumped all the sharing that I could for you on on my journey because I'm you know, I'm just, I'm someone who just genuinely wants to see other people succeed in their dreams or in their goals or their feelings, whatever they are.
Speaker 2:The tall poppy syndrome that exists is wild and it just doesn't make sense to me. Because there's so many of us in the world, there is literally room for everybody. I just don't understand why everyone is so gated Me, me, me, everybody. I just don't understand why everyone is so gated yeah, which, unfortunately, is quite intense in the literature or authoring industry and whether it's that, you know, pda or whatever it is, but you know, the more I was told that I wouldn't make it as an author or illustrator or I wouldn't do anything, just kind of, was just that. Well, I'll find out my way then, and I've studied so much and learned so much and you know there was so much trial and error and it's all behind these paywalls where people are like, oh, you know, for $400 you can do my course and oh fine, if people are going to do things like that, I'm going to record my experience and put it on YouTube for free and just stop gatekeeping.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I think, I think it's a and I'm not going to generalize and say it's like a 50, 50 split in the world, but you know, I think the majority of society is run by by finances, you know, by money. Yeah, we need well, unfortunately, we need money to survive and a lot of people think, well, why would I help someone else when they're going to take money that I could be making for myself, whereas us in the neurodivergent community are like, let's fucking help if we can make someone else happy with knowledge that we possess or skills that we possess. Make them happy, it's fucking hard, it's fucking hard.
Speaker 2:No, that's it and that's you know. If anything, if you're gatekeeping, I think that just goes to show how insecure you are, or maybe how fragile your product is or yourself is, and that's probably something that you need to sit with. So, but then also going back to Joe and Keiko, they're in another amazing story and so if anyone does listen to my episode, do go back and listen to Joe's episode. I, uh, joe and Keiko Fidgets. They are the most amazing, coolest people. I actually met Joe at an expo at an ADHD expo, and it was my first ever expo, and I was overwhelmed, I was not okay. I turned up like an hour late and for someone who's exhibiting shouldn't turn up an hour late, um so, and I was just this mess and then just Jo came up and she put one of the caterpillar necklaces just around my neck. I was like kind of, just like you know how the queen puts the medals on the knights, she kind of just came up and clipped one of them. Yes, one of them.
Speaker 1:From literally where I wear it all the time.
Speaker 2:My gosh. Well, we've got like rations on it at the moment because my girls share it. I need to do a Christmas order of some more fidgets and stuff and I'm getting some more of them, but yeah, and so I just sat there and it was just, you know, with my breaths and everything, and then at the end of the day, jo's like that did not leave your hand. That was the biggest compliment and I'm like, thank you so much. Yeah, she's awesome. Yeah, I was so grateful to her.
Speaker 1:Her and I have discussed. She was wanting to pick my brain about tattoo expos and if I think Keiko would be a good fit for tattoo expos and I was like fuck yeah, it would be. I'm like I've got this theory that the body modification community is overwhelmingly undiagnosed autistic, because tattooing in any form of body modification is essentially like an aesthetic masking. In my opinion, it's making yourself look the way you want to look.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I was like straight away. I think fidgets that you can hold in your hand would do incredibly well at tattoo expos, because people like to take their mind off the pain.
Speaker 2:I agree with that a lot, and then also too, like you know, another really good indicator that there would be a lot of neurodivergent people in tattoo shops and at tattoo expos is that you can't be touched. I don't like to be touched. It's really disgusting for anyone to touch me or hug me or anything. But I can sit eight hours for a tattoo. That's not painful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's fine you know, yeah, and the fact that you know I'll say self-harm, but not to an extreme extent Like self-harm, is pretty massive in the neurodivergent community because it's sensory play, you know, it's extreme sensory input to deal with something that's internalised, kind of thing. So the fact that a lot of people that are into tattoos state that getting tattooed is their therapy is pretty telling to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, For someone who cries if her hair is in too tight of a ponytail. But I have sat. Both my tops of my feet are tattooed and I sat five hours each foot and it hurt, I'm not going to lie, but I sat it where I've seen some other people's examples of trying to sit for a foot tattoo and the lines are shaky where I was able to just sit, Just chill. Yeah, Just hang out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you are also a very accomplished former tattoo artist as well. Just before we wrap up, I do feel like I want to honor this part of your life. Do you want to tell me a little bit about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually I think this is a really, really cool thing to talk about, because I think that I'm going to probably go fast on this, because this is something that has been a really recent lesson for me. But I find with neurodivergent people that and I know that like well, I've definitely kind of sat more in the neurodiversity but than as a parent, but there's so just so much to say. But with with that, the there's so much job changes. I find particularly people with ADHD or um, or who are neurodivergent, and there's just so many different jobs and so then our resumes look like a toilet paper roll, they're that long, and there's this almost like once again, shame or guilt. Like here's me, I can't stick to a job, I can't do this, I can't do that.
Speaker 2:I've changed so many careers. I've changed so many industries. I've been a tattoo artist, I've been an arts hub coordinator. Now I work at home for myself. Like you know, there's a common thread to my art style. But and then, trust me, like I've been an optical assistant, I was going to go to uni and become a optometrist. I was doing my masters of optics in my early 20s. Because I don't know why, I just I don't know, but that's a whole nother thing to unpack. You know, I've been a piercer before, I was a tattooist and I've got all piercing scars. I've gotten pretty well I've only got my ears pierced now but I've got all the like scars. Like I was like a trial person for when the dermals came to Australia and things and they're like where should we try all the dermal? I'm like near my eye and they're like that's dangerous. I'm like let's give it a go. And then yeah, so then I have one of those like tear style dermals and stuff, but now I've got nothing because that fads over for me I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think it'll ever be over for me.
Speaker 2:And it's just one of those things that there is just so much shame in that. But if anyone's listening and I could ever reframe anything one of the last times I applied for a job and I gave my resume over, I've had a really big what I call a critical burnout and I couldn't work for anyone but myself now. But the last job that I applied for I showed it, I showed my resume and I was like I know I've done a lot of, like different jobs and stuff and this person had only done that one job in their life and then they'd started a business from the job that they've been doing and they looked at my resume and they're like, wow, from the job that they've been doing. And they looked at my resume and they're like, wow, look at this. Like, look at how much life you've lived, look at how much life you've experienced in this resume and all the different things you've been able to try. And I was like you know it was just, it was a reframe for me and it was nice because, yeah, like I find particularly like, in my opinion, ADHD is they live 10 lives, because you want to try everything, everything's exciting, everything's new, everything's you know. We want to experience the dopamine from it. So, yeah, I have.
Speaker 2:I've had quite a plethora of careers but there has always been that common thread, aside from the optometry. But yeah, I think I got three years in and I was sitting in with an optometrist and I was like falling asleep as they're doing the one or two, one or two and I'm like, what am I doing? That's when I left my degree, but yeah, so it was fun. With the tattooing I did. I love creating art for people. There is definitely a dopamine in um being that bridge for people who have this amazing idea in their head but then they are limited by their body to like achieve it. So there's always been that reward for me. So, putting on tattoos, pinups were my thing. I loved doing pinups. They were like what I was known for.
Speaker 1:And not only known for but published about. Yeah, what was that one stage. You were the best pin-up tattooist in Australia correct, brisbane. Okay, smaller scale, still a greater cause.
Speaker 2:Brisbane Award and, like you know, upcoming Apprentice and things like that, which was really cool. Um, and a big, you know, a big compliment, but I'd like the, but then also the industry. The industry is once again another very gatekeepy industry which I didn't like and it kind of just like didn't sit great with me. It was all about like who you know and you know. These tattooists are walking around acting like rock stars and uh, there's also also like this massive culture of rules surrounding tattoos.
Speaker 1:You know, you have to earn your stripes and things like that, and I very, very much bought into that throughout my he's in early 30s. But it's, you know, since the autism diagnosis and onwards, where I've, you know, questioned a lot of the things that I thought were correct, like moral things. I realized, realized, you know, I don't give a fuck if someone else has their face tattooed and no other tattoos. Like, how does that affect me? Just like if someone would like to be called they, them, or if someone is transitioning to trans male or trans female or non-binary, or whatever have you it's what other people do with their lives.
Speaker 1:Has fuck all to do with me? Yes, if it does have anything to do with me, I'll be as supportive as I can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's it. And there was, there was I don't know. I feel like it's a lot better now. I probably was a little bit too early for my time. Unfortunately, it was very when I was doing my apprenticeship, because I went pretty much from school into an apprenticeship. It was still very bikey, dominant, where I feel like it's sitting. A lot more art, more, more, more. Yeah, yeah, definitely there's. You know, you've got like the older school, like the older style or older generation tattooers that are complaining oh, there's a tattoo shop on every corner and blah, blah, blah. But I'm once again, I'm once again in the corner where not everyone can tattoo the same. There could be a tattoo shop on every corner, but if your art is the art that people want, they're going to come to you, and if you're not a jerk when they come in, they're going to come to you Like it's yeah.
Speaker 1:I think there's that kind of difference between tattoo shops and tattoo boutiques.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, definitely. And then, yeah too, there was that other thing Like, yeah, definitely. And then, yeah too, there was that other thing Like I remember I was just I think I told you I was tattooing this dragon on someone's back and it was just. I literally have these like little epiphany moments. I was tattooing and I'm like I don't want to touch people anymore, I don't like touching people, and so I'm like, well, it's kind of hard, you know, being a tattooist, and it's like the skin is where I'm doing my art form, but like it was the designing and sending the designs through, which was always like my favorite part and the most exciting part, and then the completed tattoo, when they're looking in the mirror and they're like oh my gosh, I love it so much and you're like yes, cool, I nailed it like that's that?
Speaker 2:like obviously, like you know, cream.
Speaker 1:Literally every part of tattooing, apart from touching them, was your favorite.
Speaker 2:If I could just like blank that out of my life, which is, like you know, all the labor and and it was just all that stuff. Like you know, there was so many tattooers that just wouldn't design up or they'd be rushing to complete the design as someone's walking in the door. I'm like it just doesn't seem like you're enthused or authentic. And like you know don't get me wrong Like I get free hand and you know there's been times where you know you fill in the free hand and and and stuff, but I don't know there was just, there was just a to the industry, that just a bit of an.
Speaker 2:I didn't match and I'm not saying that the industry's wrong. I'm just saying I didn't match the industry and I yeah, I can't get my head around the like little, totally fair.
Speaker 1:thank you for sharing that with me. That was. That was more for than the listeners. I wanted to know more about it because we talked a little bit about it earlier, so I reckon that's probably about time we wrap up. Just before we do so, my brain is a race car, my body has a bubble, my feelings are waves. Where can people get them?
Speaker 2:So I've got my Etsy, which is linked to all my socials, which is where I sell my books, which is great for Australia. So if you're an Australian listener because if I post them, then I get to like, make it all pretty and I add some like little activity sheets. So for every book that I write, I make two free activities just to make myself feel like I'm being kind and helping and something. I don't know. There's more there, but I get to do that. It is also on Amazon, which is great for worldwide, because Australia Post is just murdering small businesses at the moment and I won't say any more otherwise.
Speaker 1:So as far as percentages and how much money you earn off it, etsy would be the place to get them correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, almost earlier.
Speaker 1:I ordered your three books about half an hour ago off Etsy, so can't wait for you to send them out. I've been meaning to, because there's only so many times I can watch you read them out on TikTok for free before I start to feel guilty.
Speaker 2:That's another thing. People are like you don't need to book out on socials the fuck I do. Well, like you don't read your book out on socials the fuck I do my platform. So, yes, you can watch it for free on my YouTube or TikTok or Instagram. Youtube will be obviously the easiest because I don't put anything else on there other than something actively. If you are an aspiring author, I do have a half an hour video about my mindset when it comes to writing a book and what I think contributed to the success of my book, or successes of my books. I should say. So that's all there on my YouTube. Also, my inbox is always open, as Matt knows. Ask a question, you'll get that, plus the answer of what I think your next questions will be as well. I do really want to see everyone succeed and yeah, and.
Speaker 2:I do have more books coming out in the works, which we'll talk about. You know other like life experiences and feelings, obviously like with the my Brain is a Race Car, it's just about accommodations for a neurodivergent brain. My Body has a Bubble is just talking about personal space from a neurodivergent perspective, because I find that things that aren't literal or physical can be sometimes really hard to understand as kids. And then my Feelings for Waves is actually a book about rejection-sensitive dysphoria, or RSD, what we were talking about before and I don't think that there is a book specifically dedicated to RSD a children's book and obviously I don't use any of those acronyms, I make sure I never use any clinical words it's all about relatable feelings in words that a five-year-old would understand without happening to ask questions.
Speaker 1:Perfect, I'll be sure to post the links to everything. So anyone listening, please go pick up the books. I'm excited to get them in my hot little hands so I can read them to my kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to post them this afternoon.
Speaker 1:Awesome, awesome, awesome. Well, thank you so much, nell, for joining me today. Great conversation and I'm incredibly excited to continue working together. We'll have to do a catch-up episode down the track when we're getting ready to release.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, a whole new chat, because, yeah, definitely a really good parent book.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I really appreciate it not late, I'm really all right awesome. Enjoy your day, mate.
Speaker 2:Thank you again thank you so much bye, all right cool.
