Informed Consent and Support: Lessons from George and Carter’s Birth Experiences

Welcome to Episode Fourteen of Touched Out: A Mental Health Podcast for Parents!

In this heartfelt episode, host Carter and special guest George delve deep into their personal lives, sharing their hobbies, childhood experiences, and mental health struggles. Together, they recount their journey to finding each other, their relationship history, engagement, and the traumatic birth of their first child, Hendrix. Their candid discussion highlights the emotional and physical challenges they faced during each birth and the lasting impact on their mental health.

Trigger Warning: This episode includes discussions on mental health challenges, traumatic childbirth, and family dynamics. Listener discretion is advised.

Join us as George and Carter discuss:

Navigating Hobbies and Childhood Memories:
Insights into George and Carter’s personal interests and how their childhood experiences shaped their mental health journeys.

Relationship History and Engagement:
A heartwarming recount of how George and Carter met, fell in love, and navigated the milestones of their relationship, culminating in their engagement.

Traumatic Birth's of Hendrix, Roman & Salem:
A raw and emotional discussion on the traumatic birth of their children, and the profound impact on their mental health and family dynamics.

Challenges of Childbirth:
The physical and emotional hurdles faced during each birth, highlighting the importance of informed consent and effective communication with healthcare providers.

Support System:
The crucial role of partners and family support during childbirth and postpartum recovery, emphasizing the strength and resilience of their family unit.

Advocacy for Better Healthcare Communication:
George and Carter stress the need for better communication and understanding between parents and healthcare providers to ensure a supportive and informed childbirth experience.

Enduring Love and Family Strength:
Their unwavering love for each other and their children, showcasing how their bond has fortified their ability to face challenges together.

Listen to George and Carter’s inspiring story and gain valuable insights into navigating childbirth, mental health struggles, and the importance of support systems. Subscribe now to Touched Out for more heartfelt conversations and practical tips on navigating parenthood and mental health.

Chapters

• 1:20 Rare Vacation Without Kids
• 3:40 Introduction and Hobbies
• 6:02 Childhood and Gardening
• 6:58 Mental Health Struggles and Self-Harm
• 13:18 Toxic Relationships and Finding Love
• 21:25 Dating History and Meeting Each Other
• 31:52 Engagement and Marriage
• 42:28 Birth Trauma with Hendrix
• 51:00 Traumatic Birth Experiences
• 56:50 Informed Consent and Communication
• 1:10:17 The Strength of the Family Unit
• 1:26:48 Supporting Each Other Through Parenthood
• 1:37:13 Advocating for a Positive Birth Experience

Transcript

Trigger warning. The following podcast contains explicit language and discussions of sensitive topics that some listeners may find distressing, including miscarriage, child abuse, mental health issues and birth trauma. Listener discretion is advised if you feel triggered or overwhelmed at any point, we encourage you to pause the episode and take care of yourself.

Today we have.

One young lady.

Beautiful wife. The much anticipated and requested episode with George. Thank you for being here on our little. Airbnb staycation. Vacation. I don't know what.

Thanks for having me. You're welcome. Thanks for coming along to the. Holiday that I booked.

For, yeah, that's a rare treat that we. Don't have our kids. With us, we miss them dearly. We haven't had. A holiday by ourselves in two and.

1/2 ish years, you know?

It's been a while, so yeah. Awesome. So I. Thought may as well. While we've got the. Kids away from us.

We would do our.

Season one finale of the touchdown podcast. Welcome. So why don't you start by telling us?

Thank you.

A little bit about yourself.

So what good?

Question. My name is George. I'm 27. Obviously Carter and I have three kids together. I've spent the last 10 or so years of my life. As a meat worker. I've worked in abattoirs, butcher shops, processing plants. Now I'm going to colouring school. I like dead things and history. And and I like gardening, love gardening. Love, gardening.

Talked about your gardening a little bit in previous episodes, how you and my mum would have been best of friends gardening together.

Yeah, look, I could. Definitely be a better gardener, but I do the best I can with the time. That I have.

I enjoy seeing you. Not so much in the garden, but in public, looking for things that you can take cuttings of. Yeah. Like we'll be at. A restaurant and she'll be. Wonder if I. Could steal a little cutting of that plant. And then our entire kitchen window sill is just full of cuttings and stuffing water.

Cuttings should be free and available to all. If you have a plant, share it and. If you don't wanna do that, I'll take it. And that's fine, that's fine.

You never you. Weren't always a gardener, though. That's something that's. Flourishing the last like.

Yeah, I think I purposely went looking for a hobby as much as I love gardening outdoors and having veggie patches and everything like that, I'm usually pregnant most of the time, and digging up garden beds can. Be pretty hard. When you're in that state, so I've recently gotten into house plants. Which I think I'm thriving at. Might be taking over a little bit. Too much but. You know, it brings me.

Joy, I love it. I absolutely love it. I like how how green our living areas have become. Yeah, it's.

Definitely our life.

Tell me a little bit about your early. Life and growing up. Kind of from then till when we met. And then we'll. They'll be into. How? We met and everything.

Yes. So growing up, I. Grew up in. A small rural town. I'm the youngest. Of four kids born in four years. I have two older sisters and an older brother. I didn't. Do a whole lot. When I was younger. I read a lot of books I. Didn't play as. Much sport as I should have or. Anything like that? I I think I was a pretty average younger sibling. I was a ***** ** ****. I bullied my siblings. I played up a. Lot and then. Things in my childhood started to sort of go downhill when I was about 10. I think my parents separated when I was 8, which was a very interesting separation. When your parents separate, but they continue to live in the same house. But it's something that my family have always done. So you make do with what you've got.

So when your parents separated, why was the decision made for them? To stay under the one roof.

It wasn't always that way at the start. Dad did move out. For a bit, but I think. That decision was made just. You know when. You've got 4 kids. It's it's not easy to raise 4 kids and my mum was working. In a prison. And she would often do night shifts and you know, it just makes it easier to have an extra set. Of hands. When you raising kids which? Was great for me. I probably go along with my. Dad, is it better out of the children? We're very similar sometimes to a fault.

It worked.

We often say. That I am. Very, very similar to your father, in which I'm also similar to you.

Yeah, you're very. Similar to him in some ways and then. Other ways you are just the absolute. Polar opposites. My dad is ex military and he's a firefighter and a paramedic and he lives a very structured, rigid lifestyle. And when we met, you will also. Fly by the. Seat of your pants if. I want to do it. I will if I don't want to. I won't. So yeah, you have some similarities.

I would thrive so much under structure that I don't have the get. Up and go to structure.

And that's the thing about the army. You sort of have. To have, yeah.

You gotta find those rules.

I wouldn't. I wouldn't have survived in the army.

No, no. Me on the other hand.

I mean no. Active combat aside, I wouldn't have survived in active. Combat because it's a. Large target, yeah. Slow moving the slow moving large target that.

Well, maybe.

I I yeah, I.

If I had.

A drill Sergeant up in my face telling me to make my bed again cause I. Hadn't done it correctly. I'd *******, yeah.

Well, lock my dad away.

Discharge very quickly.

Well, like Dad always taught me. Do it once and then do it again because you probably did it wrong the first time.

Yeah, that's where we differ because I'm very. Much do it once, and that's good enough, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, enough.

Is good enough. That's it. Yeah. So. Post separation you said you. Turned into a bit of a ship head. Why don't you run me through that and run me through? The mental health aspects. Of growing.

Up. Yeah, I wouldn't say that. I started off as a ******** when I was about 10. I started not sleeping and I was taken to lots of doctors and psychologists, psychiatrists, counsellors couldn't. Really figure out why I wouldn't sleep. I started sleep medication when I. Was 10. That didn't make a massive difference. And then that was also. The year that I started. Self harming which is very. Very early, I think I was in grade. Five. When I started self harming. And my mum got me into counselling very quickly. Mum had a feeling that I might have been sexually assaulted as a child and didn't remember it because my mums worked in DHS. Not when I've. Yeah, Department of Corrections. She's she's got a pretty good basis on mental health. And she saw signs that something might have happened that I wasn't. Aware of so, like I said, she tried to. Get me the help that I needed. And mark? She tried to get. Me the help that I needed but. Yeah, it took many, many. Years for me to. Sort of become good again. So yeah, I. Started self harming when I was 10. I think I was about 13 when. You know, I just started. Sneaking out with boys, drinking, smoking. Breaking into houses.

Party party. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, very much a party lifestyle and now.

As a parent.

I hate myself for the things that I did to my parents. The things that I. Put them through but. I believe that. Karma will get. Us I think Hendrix is pretty good proof. That karma exists.

Certainly does. I love her to death, but she's.

It's real.

Again umm. So as far as your. Self harming goes. Do you? Feel or do you? Know the reasons behind it was it? Self soothing was. It attention seeking was it. Like what was what? Was the reasons behind you beginning to self harm?

The beginning. Of self harming was. In a way. To gain control, I didn't have a lot. Of control, I was like I said. The youngest of four kids. Going to school, you sort. Of you get bullied in every aspect of your life and having that control over my body and what I did and being able to control. You know, if something was painful or not painful. That's what led me into it. It definitely. Turned into attention seeking I. Think it sort of snowballed. But in the start I. Think everything was controlled. I also had a. Lot of issues. With my eating when I was younger. I had ednos eating disorder not otherwise specified, so I would sort of teetered between anorexia and bulimia and binge eating all of those things, I think were just encompassed into having control over something.

When you first began self. Harming if you don't mind what was the method in? Which you would.

When I was about 10 or. 11 like when I was very. Young, I would just cut and. They were very superficial cuts, you. Know it was. What you would expect from someone that age and then when I got to about 13 that transitioned into pretty serious cutting to the point of needing to go to the hospital, quite a few. Times, but it also manifested in burn. And freeze burning which is. Very, very, very dangerous.

I myself was never a cutter. I never had the balls to do it, but I was a burner. I used to put cigarettes out on myself. And I would always disguise it as like party tricks like ohh, it carries Carters up to his antics again, putting cigarettes out on himself. But yeah, it was such. A mask, so. It was like I was like, crying inside. So I mean as far. As your scars and things go. I. Still distinctly remember when we met before we actually. Met in person you had. You warned me. So your scars? I've never seen them as anything other than. Just a part of you and a. Part of your history. I do remember when. You first met my family. I had. A little worry in my mind about what they would think and. I remember telling my brother, like, just before you made a. You don't have to know. That she's got some self harm scars. You know, don't ask about them. Don't look at them like she's just a person. And I know that he did express some worry for me becoming involved in someone with a colourful history. Ohh. I mean I. Am no stranger to mental health. I'm no stranger to self harm and. To me, it's just a part of. You it's, it's part of your history and it's. Not going to say it's beautiful because it's. To glorify self harm. But like every part of you. Is beautiful to me so. I don't see it as any other way, but. So as far as your. Self harming goes and like the teen years and. Everything you said that you were putting to counselling, I'm guessing psychiatry as well. Was involved. Because you do have some official diagnosis.

Ohh yeah.

Why don't we run through those?

I'll preface this with saying what I have. Beneficially diagnosed with and what I believe. A true very.

Thanks. We'll we'll talk about that a. Little bit more.

So the diagnosis sort of evolved over time. It initially started out as depression and generalised anxiety, and then depression, anxiety, insomnia. When depression wasn't really fitting anymore, I was labelled borderline personality disorder. And which for many, many years I thought, yeah, that's it. This is what it is. When you and I met. I told you point blank look up BPD. Get to know what it is get. To know why? I might. In certain ways, and it's not a cop out of saying. I can be a ***** ** ****. And that's that's why. I'm doing this. But it sort of gave you a basis of. Knowing what could possibly. Be a trigger. So I think borderline I. Was diagnosed when I was 16. I got diagnosed in the hospital after a suicide attempt because my boyfriend at the time wanted to break up with me and I. Have such immense regret for doing that. I was such a toxic. Person, but there was just so much going on in my head that I didn't understand. And he'll never listen to. This, but if he does.

I'm sorry.

Shouldn't have done that. So yeah, it went to borderline personality and I was diagnosed. Just BPA, depression, anxiety and eating disorders for probably about two years. Then when I got to 18, one of my psychiatrists discussed putting me on lithium because he believed that I was bipolar. And you know, I would go through these manic episodes. Which, yeah, I didn't. Didn't really buy into the bipolar and going on lithium. So in a way, I pulled. My head in. And made conscious effort to get better, I stopped. Indulging in my mental illness. Which I had done. For many years I was institutionalised. Twice when I was 14 and you know that. Sort of became my. Thing for a. Little bit and I played off it and. Yeah, a lot of it was related back. To attention but. Yeah. I think at the moment my current diagnosis where standing at, I actually got a new one, reactive depression, which I hadn't hadn't heard of reactive depression, acute stress disorder, ADHD. PTSD from birth trauma, which is. Justified, I think.

That's that's a whole conversation. We will also get into.

Yeah. Yeah. So off the top of my head, they're the ones that I can think of. Yeah, we're in the process of having me diagnosed autistic, but that's not official yet. But it's looking like I'm.

We're we're pretty certain.

Yeah, yeah, ASD level 1.

We're we're a pretty spectrum family. Yeah, so massive history. Massive. Steps to take to even. Be here in this moment, which is awesome. So I mean, all of that together. You know you had your. Time in the mental institutions. We like to talk a. Little bit about that and. How that looked for, yeah.

Yeah, of course. It looked very different. To what I was expecting look.

What were you expecting?

Girl. Interrupted. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I found that movie not long before I got institutionalised. And I still remember the quartic borderline between what and. And that sort of stuff with me for a while because. Yeah, borderline between what? And what? So I went to an inpatient unit in Melbourne. A few hours from my house. You know you've got. Your own private room. A lot of the people. In there are very. Similar to you, a lot of them were cutters. There was the. High dependency unit where you would go after you.

Had like a little muscle.

But I made. Quite a lot of good friends there. Most of them, unfortunately, are no longer here. But I guess that's part and. Parcel with meeting people in a mental world. But it was pretty basic. You'd get up in the morning, you'd have breakfast, you'd go to therapy, whether it be art therapy, music therapy, they'd take us for a. Walk every morning. It was, I think, helpful. To a degree. But my dad was the only person. That visited me. Yeah, mum found. It a little bit too hard.

Do you? Your mum for not coming to. Visit you or do you understand?

I don't think that would be. The right word Mum has struggled with her own mental health. My entire family have struggled with mental health and I think to go in and see your 14 year old youngest daughter. In a mental hospital for self inflicted pain. I can't imagine what I put my. Parents through. I mean Dad would come and. Visit me, but he wouldn't really talk. They would just ask me how I'm doing.

Do you think it was more just for him to see you in person so he knows tangibly? That you're doing alright. Or do you think it maybe was more for you? OK.

I think it's a bit of. Both Dad really struggles to show his emotions. But I know that he and I. Have quite a strong bond and. Obviously, feed his child. He cares a lot about me. But yeah, I think it's.

A bit of.

Both your dad struggles. To show his emotions through talking. But he shows. In doing.

That's the same as like we're active service, yeah.

Yeah, through and through life.

I couldn't tell you.

The last time I hugged him. He mows the.

Lawn. Yeah, he mows the lawn. He does the gardens. When you don't want. I mean, I still remember when him and I first kind of met versus like when I asked him permission to marry you, which is archaic to say the least, but respectful. There are some traditions that I. Still hold value in. I think you did too. I think you were pretty. Stoked that? I asked. Both your mother and your father, but I. But saying to him on the day of our wedding, I'm gonna hug you. And he was like, get ******? No. You're not you. Do it and you'll *******. Regret it and it became this running joke. For months and months. It's like, oh, ****. You better be ready for that, hug, Jacko, because I am. Going to hug you? As your as your.

Baby boy.

New ******* son in law, I am going to hug you and. You know? Sure enough, the day of the. Wedding after our. Ceremony and we were officially married and we signed all of the documents. He came up and I went to shake his hand because I'm not going to force him into something he didn't want, and he swatted my hand away and gave. Me a hug. And uh. It's it was a beautiful moment. And it's it's a core memory. For me, for sure.

Yeah, we have photos of that moment. You were both crying. Because he called you son so.

Yeah, and he still does. He still does. He and he. Yeah, he's very, very. Especially with me because I'm not blood, but like he would never say I love you or anything like that. But he definitely shows him the way in which he asks things. He'll say like how his son or you know, if I've. If I've done something to kind of get you out. A little bit of a mental hole or. Done something good with the kids? He will say. Well done, son. And you can see like. He's beaming with pride and it's a really, really nice thing. It's a nice, a nice feeling to have someone who's a father figure that's not blood. Show that. Admiration towards you. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll skip forward. A little bit after your teen years and.

And your self.

Harming you is what kind of. Got you out of. That situation was there any specific? Thing that happened to make his stop, or is it still very much? And itch that wants to be scratched. But you won't.

It will always be there. Mm-hmm. I think there will always be something in the back of my mind that. You know it it it's an easy way out to. Have that instead of the self. Control to not do. It, but I think when. The discussion was that I. Would be put on with him. That really made me pump the brakes because. It's lithium. See batteries like that that very much scared me. And to think that I. Have gotten to a point where my psychiatrist thought. ****, this is the only way. This is the only way. We can sort her out. Yeah. So I. I very much dive into my work. I was very passionate about meat work. So I enjoyed doing it, you know, going early, stay back late. I got to be physical throughout the day. Yeah, I think it. It was very much a decision that I. Made. Yeah. And I said, look, I've had my fun. Terrible choice of words. But I've had my phone. I've been there, done that, let's. Pick myself. Up and get going.

And what age was that?

That would have been.

About 19. Yeah. And by then you had already entered meat, correct. Yeah. Yeah. So you I feel like when I met you, you were very, very deep into your work. And it's a place you remain to this day. You're an absolute workhorse. You are very much. Leave to work. But not in a toxic way. Yeah, like you. You've found yourself and found. Value in proving you could be. The best at your job. And it's something that I admire greatly about you.

Yeah, I wouldn't even. Say it was. About proving something about a job I enjoyed meatworks and I enjoyed everything about meatworks. Because I'm rather small in stature. And there's not a lot of women in network, so women, let alone small women and. We're told you can't do that. And I made it a point to prove. That I can do anything a man can do. If not better.

Yeah, and it's something. That you still groove to this date, anything you can do, I can do better apart from apart from reaching high shelves.

That's it. Yeah, show all the motions.

That's why you've got. Me showing emotion and reaching shelves. It's literally the things that I'm good at. What do you call me when I need when you need me to reach something high? Long Shin, apparently my. Shins are disproportionately large for my body and. Normal toilet is a squatty potty to. Me. Yeah, knees up to my chin. Also, that's kind of 19. And then you delved into meatworks and a slew of failed and toxic relationships. Let's go through your relationship history up to when.

Ohh God.

You met me.

OK. I won't go through the entire history. You know if if I'm. Like 1617, it doesn't really. Count but coming up towards you. I had had one boyfriend. Didn't work out. He turned out to be a very bad man. And so obviously I did the natural thing and began dating his older brother. Family dinners were very awkward at his house. Again, that didn't work out because I was young and dumb and this man was, you know, he had an ex wife and kid. I was searching for something. And I wasn't sure what I was searching.

For but I.

Wasn't getting it. So then that didn't work. And then I met again these. Two young. Children that were. A head chef and sous chef of a restaurant and I dated those they. Were beautiful.

Go back to back.

Or overlap.

There might be some. Again, if they're watching this, sorry. Yeah. So that was. Sort of where I, yeah. Old boys. And started delving into the world. Of yeah.

Emo boys.

Love little emo boy. I've always like. Little like stick thin skaters that used to be my type, but now definitely not my type. So after those relationships, I actually. Dated a boy. Very much a boy. Not a man. A boy, though, works with. We broke up. It didn't end very well. I took his job. I got a promotion. Yeah, me. And then after that relationship I just gave up and I said, you know what? If something's going to happen, it's going to. Happen and it's going to find me. I'm not going to go looking. For it, because the people that I choose. Are not paying off. My type beforehand. Was just not not good people, people that. We're allowed to treat me. Like **** and I deserved better than. That so when you're looking for people that aren't. A ***** ** ****, obviously. You got a Tinder?

Do you think that in you dating those people at the time was kind of intrinsically? What? You believed that? You deserved. Or was it kind of you? Settling for. Less because of the way you felt about yourself.

I think it was settling for less, but in. In another way it. Was also a form. Of self harm like it. Was so detrimental to my mental health.

Give yourself a break from treating yourself like ****. Let someone else. Do it. Yeah, yeah.

You know you still. Get the same thing, one at the end. Of the day, you still feel like ****.

Still feel ******* sad and empty.

Someone else is doing a little though.

And that's.

Piggybacking off other people's toxicity.

I mean, yeah, I think I was just accepting the love I thought I deserve. But in that there was no love. There was no love. I was. Young and dumb, and I was skinny and I. Drank beer and I was fun and. And now I'm not. But yeah, I just.

It's a pretty, pretty different, but. Incredibly accurate way of looking at it, like dating in toxic relationships. It's a form of self harm. Because you very much are putting yourself in that. Situation and then. Just like any mental health illness. If you live. Realm it. Almost becomes like misery loves company. And it just becomes super comfortable in. In this just toxic yucky. Of a life. If you could go back and tell your. Teenage late teen self. Anything what? Tell them.

Don't smack, man.

Don't smoke meth. It's ******* solid advice.

If I could tell myself anything in terms of relationship. I I wouldn't. I'd say you do you. Because every. Trip that I've taken every. Fall I've had is a learning curve. I learn from everything I have never made a mistake and not. Learned from it, I might. Do it again a few more times. But I think. In having all of. Those bad relationships? It taught me that one. Day I would find someone who actually would treat.

Right.

Still searching.

Yeah, yeah, probably my second or third husband. Yeah, maybe. My first wife who? Knows see what happened.

I could end up being your first wife. Hey. Yeah, see what happens? Sometimes I feel a little. Bit, hey, how you? Going as far as the. Gender spectrum. Guys, why not? I I always kind of I like asking that would you go? Back and, uh, do you regret anything? Or what would you say to your younger? Self I always like asking that question, but I never like. Being asked that question because I don't have any regrets. And I'm. Sure, you probably live your life. Quite similar to the way I feel about it. It's very much a. If I lived. A life of. Regret. That means that there's something. In my life, now that I. Am not happy because all of those life. Choices led me to where I. Am today, yeah. With the knowledge with. Just the pathways. You know, if I had have done this differently or. If I hadn't have chosen to. Do this. That might have changed the trajectory of my life. I would have never met you and we wouldn't have the amazing life and the. Kids and the. Family that we have so. No, I don't regret anything that. Some things that I should have done 100% mess. I'm lucky that I didn't do it for so long that I. Don't have teeth? But you know it's. It's all just a part of life and I. Both of us together have. An incredible amount of life. Experience and St knowledge. All of that. So how did we?

We super act each other on Tinder.

We only did super like each other on timber. And that was February 2017, yeah.

Yeah. So I am a big believer in fate and you're a big believer in life and you believe that that's how we met. And going back to the thing that regrets. There are too many variables. For us, meaning to not have been fate. So you know. If I had done something differently, if I. Or wasn't a. ***** ** ****. If I didn't go into meatworks, I wouldn't have been working in that town and I wouldn't have matched with you on Tinder while I was working there because we lived, what, 120 days away from? Each other or something?

It was 2 and a. Half hour drive I believe from memory. Was it no hour and? 1/2 hour. And a half drive. So you lived in? Country Victoria and I would travel to.

Melbourne each day.

And I lived. I lived on the outskirts of Melbourne City so Hoppers crossing, one of the western suburbs in. And you were. Working in like a town over Laverton. Yeah. So we were still a good 30. Kilometres away from each other when we. Matched, luckily that. Both our radiuses were kind of high that day.

And my age range.

And your age range? Yes. My wife is 9 years, 10 days younger than me and some would say that that is toxic. However, I'm the problem. That's not the toxic part. The toxic part is that she. Had her age set too? Much higher than it really. I think you had listed yourself AS25.

2420.

6/26/26 and I was 29. At the time. So she already hooked me. Before I learned her real age.

But I.

Think in terms of maturity. And life experience, we're very much.

Not many people guess that you're old as ****.

Not really. I look like a ******* fresh baby. And you know from. Anyone that's on the outside looking in? And that they don't. Know anything about us or our history can very easily sit there and say like that age range is disgusting, that's predatory. Blah blah blah, you've been groomed. And while. Generally speaking, I could definitely agree with a lot of those sentiments, but anyone that knows us on a personal level or. Anyone that has? Excuse me. Heard our story or heard. Our histories knows, understands and acknowledges. That we are very, very much perfect for. Each other in every way and it is very. Much an age is just a. Number kind of deal. So the day we matched. Do you remember the daily match? Do you remember? Your thoughts? When?

You matched.

Yeah, detail. I just saw the photo. And I saw. Big boy. I thought that's not usually what I. Go for. But he's hot so.

Chopping out or chopping now.

Yeah. So we got the bone. So yeah, we I super like you. I think with the moustache. Yeah, and and then? Yeah. When I see people like you. You super liked me back, I think. That day I was walking into Colts. Probably going to. Buy beers or darts or something. And you messaged me some stupid question. About what cuisine I prefer.

Prefer Mexican or dumplings?

What did I say?

Interesting. Yeah, preferred dumplings these days.

I just wanted to know.

I can say.

Something I don't.

Have to call I remember. When we matched. I was at my friend Jason's house and we were getting ready to go. Out to a nightclub that. And I matched with you not thinking. I would like I swiped it, said super light. And my instant thought was that that's a. A fake account. Because I was like, there's no way in hell that someone this bloody attractive would like me. So it's either a mistake and I won't get a reply, or it's one of those. Like I'm going to say. Hey, how you going? And they'll. Be like follow this link. Let me. Take all of. Your money.

He didn't fall for it.

And I was like boys. Boys have a look and, like, showed off your photos. And I was like, she is. And then you replied to me and. I was like no way. This is sick and we talked like. All that night. And pretty much just never stopped talk. From then, we met. What? 2-3 weeks after.

It was about two weeks. After and you were the first and only. Tinder. Hook up I've ever had. I have never met anyone off Tinder, but I have also never actually been on a.

Right.

I had had many boyfriends, couple girlfriends, but I had never been taken out on a date.

Our first date was to Carlton. Yep, doc pasta. Mm-hmm. Lovely night.

It was, yeah.

We were just inseparable straight away. I think it was like 3 weeks. In that we were official and like.

And two of those. Weeks I were I was in.

Vietnam. Yeah. And we were only boned. Messaging so not even face to face.

So so.

I came to your house. For the first night and. He had asked me. What I like to do when I. Said like I I like to drink beer. I. Like to eat pizza and you knew? That I wasn't very tall. I was.

I was like little GAIL. 26 packs will do 2-6 packs, yeah.

Those 26.

Packs were gone in the first half. An hour and I drove your car to. The bottle shop to get a slab. Was it last night? Stayed up all night talking like we were very, very much? Open and honest with our shared histories, some would say to an unhealthy. Level. Ohh yeah. Trauma bonded dog little bit.

The viciously codependent.

But it's never been from a toxic point of view. It's never been. Like a. Let me dump all my emotions on you as a form of control, or so you'll feel bad. For me. It was just a. Very much like I want to know. Every piece of your history. And I want to. Live every moment of my life from here. On with you it. Was very much. Wouldn't say love at first sight. But the love. Grew very, very quickly and within the first year we were engaged. Yeah, I think we were together, what, 10? Months before we engaged. What was that day like?

I was shocked.

What was the night before like? At the time, we lived with some friends and we were sitting in the lounge room or talking and we had been talking about engagement for a while and George had said I'm going to. Know when you're going. I know everything. I know everything. I'm going to know when you propose, when you're going. To propose to me.

I'm gonna know when you've got that ring. You cannot pull apart from me, yeah.

Your your thoughts were that?

You can't keep a secret to save your life.

For one, I can't keep a secret. But for two I would. Tell the housemates and they can't keep up.

And little did you.

Know that I had had that ring in my. Bedside table for two months. And the next day we went. To the Warburton rainforest. Ohh sorry. Warburton. Redwood forest? Yeah.

Yeah, Redwood.

And yeah. Proposed. Yeah. And you ugly.

Cried everywhere. Ohh yeah, yeah, I was. Very, very shocked. We actually got into a fight that morning. And you turned around and you snapped at. Me and said you didn't want to go. I'm fine. Yes, whatever. I wanna go.

We're very much not going places, people. So to set it up, I was like, I wanna go do something cool this weekend. I've wanted to see the Redwood forest for years. Let's all go. As like a family. So it was me, you and. Three MI housemates who were at the time, very. Very close friends. So we edged that morning the. Weather wasn't great. It was. Like sprinkling, it wasn't full on raining, but it was overcast and. A bit yucky. And I'd already geared myself up to, you know.

Get this done.

And you didn't really want to. Go and I. Was like ohh or whatever like.

Call the whole thing off.

So you reluctantly agreed to come. We all jumped. In the car and. Drove like an hour and a half. Stopped for some burgers at a cool burger joint. On the way, yeah, we got. There and then. You. So I had my my best mate, Tristan. Who you've all heard about a little bit before? He was one of our housemates. He brought his. His fancy camera with him to take some. Photos of when I got down on one knee.

UM.

And you decided to wear gumboots rainbow gumboots.

That's fine.

When we got there, obviously cause it was big. Money. But I was like, don't don't wear gumboots like we're. Gonna get nice photos and she's like, don't tell. Me. What I can and cannot wear. So I was like. I'm not touching this one so. She's wearing some gum boots. That have been cropped out. Of all of our. Engagement photos, yes. Then yeah, I got down on one knee and. At first you were like I **** ***, ********, blah, blah, blah. Like you thought I was just joking. And then you looked into my hand and saw that I was holding a ring and. Look like you know pass.

Here it's a very interesting. Recollection of what happened, yeah.

When I got down on my knee, I also farted nervousness. What?

You asked me to look down through the forest. So you were. Like turn around and look down that way. And I did, and then I turned. Around and you were on a. Knee and instantly I was crying. I didn't even say yes. I didn't agree to marry you.

Have you ever said yes?

Yeah, I just cried. I. Yeah, I was very taken back, yes. You got.

Me. I did, I. Got you. Good. Hmm. So we were. Pregnant building a house. And married less than a year after that. Yeah, April 2019.

April 2019 was when.

Hendrix was born.

We had Hendrix, we got married. In March, March. Then we were in. The House in August, yeah.

Very 20/19 was a very big. Had our first baby moved into. Our house got married and both. Changed careers. Or in that same year. Which was massive.

So we'll go through.

The birth of. Hendricks will delve into your birth, our birth trauma. Run me through. I've ran through very very vaguely. On other episodes, the various birth. Traumas that we have experienced. Yeah, with the three. Of our kids. But we'll let utility. In your own. Words. So we'll start with the birth. Of Hendricks, our oldest. Who is?

Yeah. So like I said. Before I am the youngest. Of four kids, my two sisters. Have their own kids. Mm-hmm. And it all sort of started when I went around to my sister's house for something. And she was doing my hair. And she looked at my. Feet and she said, George, you have preeclampsia. You need to go to. The Doctor's and I said no, I don't like. I'm fine. I have my. Appointments all the time, everything's OK and. She poked my. Foot and it left an indent and she said. You have preeclampsia go to the hospital. So I obviously didn't because of who I am as a person. I went to my next doctor's appointment and they said, yeah, yeah, blood pressure is pretty high. We'll keep an eye on it and my next. Appointment. My blood pressure was. Very, very high. And I called Carter at work. And I said we need. To go to hospital and one of my sisters. Said. Pack a. Bag you are going to be in. Loose. So I went home and I made some popcorn and I sat down and I ate.

For a little bit.

At the time, I didn't really know what preeclampsia was. I unfortunately don't take anything about my health seriously. If something can go wrong with me, it will. Some sort of just used to things being wrong with me. So yeah, we get sent to the hospital. Thank you for him, it's pretty clips. Here and they say. Look, you need bean juice that was on. Carter's birthday. And I said well. Maybe like can we not do? It today, can we do? Can. We just do it. Another day. Chop me up. Yeah, so they say come back in the morning for a scan. We go back for a scan and baby was measuring quite small, so I was eventually diagnosed. Hendrix was diagnosed with iugr into uterine growth restriction. Which means she. Was just a little bit too little. So we went in, I think it was on. The third we started the induction. And at the time, I didn't really know anything about inductions. Most people get them. It must be fine. It must be, you know.

We were very uninformed for our first we.

Went in blind. Very naive. To what could have gone wrong? So we started the. Induction, which is a very long story. So we started the induction on the 3rd. Hence, wasn't born until the 7th. So that Mattie matten.

Dad's out.

There four days on that fold out couch. Four days.

Must be hard.

Four days, guys.

Yeah, must be hard laid down.

For me please.

I think. With Hendrix, we started the proper induction and. Then when we. Got the Pitocin going. The drug to make you contract? And all that jazz. I did that for about 17 hours. And then eventually I sort of hit a wall. I said we need to do the drill. I didn't want to. I never wanted to do that epidural. I have a fear of. Needles and unfortunately. I'm super curious and I'll look up any medical procedure. Before I have it done. So once you see how. Big the air drill needle is. No one's ever that keen to do it. So yeah, we eventually agreed to do it and we had the needs just come in and you. Know you get in the. Position and you curl over and you get the numbing needles which was bad enough. But then once you try to do the actual epidural. It didn't work. And no one explains to you that spines aren't always straight up and down. You know, bang in the centre we didn't know, but it took about thirteen tries and that's not 13 of the cannulas being put in, but it was 13 tries and getting. The needle into. The right. Spot this ended with me. And I was in tears and. I said please just just stop. Like I I. I can't do this. And then he just turns around and. Goes well, don't I think she cracked the sheets cause I got snappy at her and she said don't. Talk to me like that. I don't need to do this. And that was when you sort of started to tuck up? Because when you. Eventually looked at the epidural in my. Back it was about two inches away from where it. Should have been and it. Was pretty covered in blood. That was pretty rough.

She just had a bad attitude. From the get go, I don't know. If it was like just the. Way we looked or. Something but the second she walked in and saw us, you could tell she didn't want to do it for some reason. And that that really translated you know. Work like she was rushed. She didn't do any due diligence in trying to, like, seek out where your spine was. Yeah. Or anything like that. And she just kind.

That wasn't.

Of stabbed you a.

Lot you hanging.

Yeah, that wasn't. Fair on me. I was 22 and. I had no idea what I was going to.

Yeah, it was pretty sucky. So yeah, I definitely came to bat a little bit and was like, you know what? If you can't. Do it this try and get out like yes.

This is your last.

Game because you're not gonna. Sit here and. Talk to my wife. Like that, when we're going through this. And from a medical standpoint, I totally get that doctors and everyone gets burned out and they end up suffering from a little bit of empathy, burnout and. Fail to understand that we are people before we're patients. But yeah, any medical practitioners out there listening medical? Practitioners, if you. Want just remember we're people with, with people. Yeah, be nice.

So yeah, I think. That was what kicked off my birth trauma with hindrance, and it might not sound like a big deal to some people, but every time I speak about that it would you. I can feel it in my back. I can feel it and. I've done some trauma counselling. So that happens. They get there really. And I think we're coming up on maybe 20 hours of labour and they tell me, great, you're at 10 centimetres. Finally, you can start pushing. And I knew that this was a small baby. We knew that she was going to be small, and I've spent the last 22 years being told that I've got beats in hips, which is a weird thing to tell people in general. I pushed for two hours and 17 minutes and Hendrix ended up having a shoulder. Scotia. So even though she was such a small baby, she got stuck. So her head was out, but I. Couldn't get her body out and I didn't know. Really, what was going on? I didn't know what was happening, but there was a code called. They asked Carter to press. The button on the. Wall and all of these people rushed in and this woman comes in and she's very, very stern and very serious. You know that she was the midwife in charge, but she said you need to get this baby out now or she's. Going to die so. I think the options were maybe breaking. Hendrix's collarbone. Cutting me pretty seriously or I had one last shot. They did what's called the Mick Roberts, I believe, which is in manoeuvre.

Needs to forward here.

Yeah, pretty much look. There's people in me other than my. Daughter. But eventually. I did get Hendricks out once, they said, like your baby's in trouble. I actually had bear tooth playing. And I think it was greatness or. Death that was playing at the. Time, great labour music. Eventually we get her. Out she gets put on my chest and she. Purple and she was what felt to me cold. Yeah. So she had the cord wrapped around her neck twice and every time. I would push. You know it caused a bit of. Traction on the. Neck, whatever. So she's on my chest and they're rubbing her and saying come on, baby, and they're trying to suction her throat and everything. And as they say, we. Need to take her off the reserve? She starts breathing and she starts crying. And that was the. Greatest thing I've ever heard. And then I just remember vomiting. I know that Hendrix was taken off me. I was given a shot to help me deliver the placenta, which can make people vomit and. For me there. Is A1. 100% chance that I will project. I'll vomit everywhere. I did that. I delivered the placenta. Hendrix is off being, you know. Taking care of and I started to bleed out and then there was another code called. And Hendrix was given to Carter. He was pushed out of. The way and he said. Just move. We need to deal with this. And yeah, that was.

Baby got put in the corner.

Yeah. Yeah. What they had to do to. Stop my bleed was also. Pretty dramatic. I sort of begged them not to do it and they said. We need to.

Fondue massage.

Yeah, yeah.

That was cool.

So frontal massages after you have the baby, they just sort of poke and. Prod around on your. Uterus to make sure that it's contracting. Fondle massage when you're having a postpartum bleed to me. Felt like a fist going in and twisting and it was horrible. And that was with an epidural. How much I felt. Was not good and. But eventually they stopped the bleed. I'm OK Hendricks is OK. Carter spent awake for four days. So he. Goes home to have a sleep. Everyone goes home to have a sleep and I'm left with this baby and I have no idea what I'm doing and. She was making. This noise, and I thought that's weird. I've never. Had a newborn, but I've been around. Them and I thought that's. Weird and I pressed the midwife button. And you know. That they eventually Mosey on in and they. Said Oh no, she's just got a bit of speed up. It's fine. And then later that night, I'm. Alone with her again, and I can. Hear this noise and my she's choking. She's straight up choking on something, so I press the midwife button and they don't come, and it can sometimes take them a while. So. I went out there. And only in the whole. Just saying like someone help me. I I don't know what's going. On. Yeah. So what eventually became of that was what's called a dusky episode because she was stuck for so long. She inhaled so much amniotic fluid, it was stuck in her lungs, so she had to be taken to the recess Bay and she had to be suctioned.

I had written. And came back by that stage, so I. Went down with her.

You came in for the second time. And you got.

Suctioned. Yeah, it's not a fun thing to say like sticker. Tube straight down the throat.

You know. Yeah. So that was Hendrix and. I think she was eventually. Diagnosed jaundice. And then she got put under the lights and.

Come through the tanning bed. For a day or two.

Yeah, yeah, we still got our little glasses.

So All in all, I think we.

Were in hospital for what? 8 days, 10 days, 10 days. So that was their first.

Thanks, Mario.

First dip into the. Pool of parenthood, yeah.

My name is Roman. I had run in 17. Months after we had Hendrix. And I went into this. Educated at **** like I thought I knew what. I was doing. And even a few days before I. Had Roman, I said to 1. Of my aunties that. Called me a cheque and she goes. Oh, hope you don't get a C-section. I said, well, why would I get a? C-section. Why would? I need a caesarian. What a weird thing to say. Ideally I wanted a water birth with any of my kids. I couldn't with. Hendrix because I was induced for preeclampsia and IG R and then with Roman, he was suspected. To be a macrosomic baby.

Too big?

Yeah. So I've had one that's too big and one that's too small.

And also you can do a word of water birth with Roman for those reasons. And because it was at the height of Melbourne's COVID lockdown, which was the longest and strictest COVID lockdown in the world.

Yeah. So that was the first or the actually the second birth that my mother had missed because while my. Sisters had a baby. Three. Weeks before I had Roman. And that birth went pretty well for her. But yeah, Mum didn't get to see it, so we go in and when I finally commit to being induced with Roman because they just kept saying that the baby is too big. I said there is no such thing. My body will not make a baby, that it is, but it's too big to birth. It's not possible. We will. Birth to big babies. Every day, and I agree to be induced on August 25th, which is my father's birthday. Romano's middle name is Anthony, named after my father. So we kick off the induction at 7:00. I told them break my waters, you know. Let me labour. Let me do. My thing and then. You know, give me the drug a. Little bit later, none of. That worked nothing. He wasn't. Ready to come out? He ended up being born on the 26th. At 3:00 AM. Via emergency caesarean, nothing to do with him. He was happy in there. He was super chill. He was great. He just wouldn't come down no matter what they did. That baby's head was not.

Not really.

So it was diagnosed. Valued progress.

Value progressive, which is a very. It's a common term loosely. Used term in. Birthing communities, they often call it failure to weight because doctors are just impatient and they want to get the. Baby out like it like I. Said Roman was fine. He was chilling there. Yeah.

His heartbeat never spiked or anything. He was really happy. He just didn't want to come in.

And that's what it was. And I got to a point where during the Labour I agreed that I would need an epidural. And kind of took me in East just outside and she said look. She has significant trauma. In regards to the epidural and this and 'cause. Absolute godsend. She came in and she sat me down and. She said. I'm. Not going to put a needle in your. Back unless I know. That that's where it goes. Let's try. So that was. An amazingly healing experience. That was. Great. She was really.

Receptive to me talking to her as well and being like hey. This is going to be a. Really, really hard thing for my. Wife to do you? Need to get on board with making this experience. As quick and easy as possible and. She was just. Don't even worry about it. I've got. This here's gross, yeah.

Yeah, she was. So you had there, Pedro. We waited quite a while to see if I would progress any further. I didn't. I don't think I got past six centimetres with Roman. It just wasn't happening, so we eventually agreed that we would go in to do the Caesar. Which was fine. You know. It's got the baby out. That's the end goal. He had great outdoors, which is like his breathing, his colour, everything was all good. And like I said, he was born at 3:00. 26 somewhere around 3:00 AM with you now, baby. And that was all good. You go home after I've been with him in theatre. He fed straight away. He was fantastic. And I fed him a few times. And then you go home and you wake up to some messages from. Me at about 8:00 AM. Saying something's going on, I don't really know what it is. He had done a. Vomit and the first one was. Yeah, and I. Was like Ohh God, it's a dusky episode. Like with Hendrix. But I knew that that. Noise wasn't normal. And then you've done another vomit. And this is nothing against the. Hospital. This is just my experience, but I press the midwife button again. I was unaware that this was during changeover. I waited so long for a midwife to come that I was trying to. Pull out my catheter. Not my cannula. I was trying to pull. Out my. Catheter I had called you. You had time to call the hospital to call the the unit and say get someone into her room.

I ended up calling.

Your midwife that you had had throughout your pregnancy.

Yeah. So I had continuity of care. I had the one.

Midwife. Yeah. So I ended up calling her. Who was off duty after like an? 18 hour shift sleeping. And I was like, I'm. So sorry to bother you. Something's happening with my baby. George has been like buzzing up for staff and it's been. Like alarming for half an hour and know. What's coming like? Please call the hospital and get someone there.

And she did. I think it genuinely ended up being 40 minutes. Then I waited. And I thought the midwife was gonna come. In and say there's no. Big deal. Let's you know whatever. Because I had this caesarian, I couldn't pick Roman up. I couldn't see the vomit they came in and they told me that's an avocado green vomit, which? Apparently doctors are. Happy with any colour vomit other than green. So they said. Look, we're just gonna take him. We're gonna. Run some tests. Get some sleep. They take him up to the NICU and they told me it could be a twisted bowel or it. Could be an infection. And they said, look, he's just gonna spend some time with Nick. You like rest? You know, kick back. Everything's. Right. That happened at 8:00 and. Then at 2:00 PM, I was told at 1:00 PM, I was told he would need to be transferred to the Children's for surgery. And then he left at 2:00 PM. So board at 3:00 AM and then. He was moved to a different hospital, usually after a severe you don't stand for 20. 4 hours after. But when they told me he was leaving, I said get. Me in the shower. Get Me Out. I'm getting up.

I need to be with my baby.

Yeah, if you help. Me do it or I'll do it myself. And I did. I wouldn't swear him at Niku when they strapped him into the Piper ambulance and. They said he was gonna go to. A different hospital for surgery and like you. Said before, it was the height of COVID. So. I wasn't allowed to be there. There was only. One parent allowed to be with children at the time.

For the first two weeks.

Of Romans life in NICU we we did not spend time with him together. In the same room.

He didn't know us without face masks I wore. We both wore face masks during most of the area. So yeah.

It's it's to this day. It's definitely feelings that I still haven't processed fully or healed from. I struggled to look at photos of.

When he was in the queue. It's hard because he was very, very.

Close to dying. And I didn't have my person with me when I have a doctor like you're on loudspeaker. When I had the surgeon saying that. There's a very good chance. We're going to open your summer. And his bow is going to. Be dead, which means that he will not. Survive his surgery. And that's ******* hard. That's so hard to hear as a parent or as just a person. Like, that's something. That's hardly reconciled. We were incredibly lucky. That not only was his. Bowel alive. But there was kind of no dead bits and no need. For a stoma, or, you know a lifelong colostomy, that he made a full recovery very much like a.

Yeah. So just to. Quickly explain that he was born. With the bowel twisted into a loop. So when it twists into a. Loop. It can cut off the blood supply. And then if that dies. He ends. Up becoming septic and he was treated for. Sepsis. Anyway, he did have sepsis. But if enough of the bow is. Dead. Then they won't survive because of just the the infections that would. Have caused or. You know, best case scenario, he had what he had, which? Is a mid gap malrotation. Surgery. It was repaired with latch bands that he. Had his appendix out. But yeah, you were in a different. Hospital and I was on the phone. And he was asking me all these questions. Like do we? Do we approve of blood transfusions? Do we approve of? A stoma if they need to do it, and then when we did speak to the surgeon at the Royal children's, he said. Look, there is a good chance that he will go into the surgery and not come out alive. And yeah, that's an A pretty hard. Thing to hear as a parent, he was. Less than 24 hours old when he went in for surgery. Because they said. This needs to. Happen now because that vomit that Roman had done. In the hospital. Where it was green and I I thought. Like it was just a weird. Colour bomb that was poo. Our son vomited up poo. So yeah, and turns out he was too big. For me to birth, which was a great. Thing he was. Born 4.2 kilos.

Big boy.

Hendrix was 2.9, but him being born at 4.2 was fantastic because he had enough. Fat and energy reserves to keep him going because I wasn't allowed to breastfeed him. He wasn't. Allowed to be fed. For the first two weeks of. His life he had a. Pick line. He had multiple pick lines which are. Cannulas that go up into his. He was on a ventilator. We weren't allowed to hold. In for the first few days.

The pick line they tried to. Do it through his foot, up into his heart. Which didn't work. They ended up going. Through his groyne.

Yeah, they did. Two through his ankle. And they couldn't get it in. But yeah, if we look. Back on the photos of him from a few hours old and there is a cord coming out of every limb. Yeah, it it wasn't great.

We weren't allowed to pick him up. For like the first week. And get to cuddle him until seven days in. But massive massive. Shout out to the Ronnie Mack house while. The McDonald foundation. There was a one. On McDonald House for Families with special high need families. For kids in NICU. Where we were able to stay.

Whilst Roman was in the queue. And if it?

Wasn't for COVID, it would have been so much more amazing because they had like daily activity. To do. They have like childcare. If you had other kids, but because of. COVID we weren't allowed to. Have Hendrix with us. So shout out to. Your family for stepping up and looking after. Hendrix for those two. But yeah, it was like a dorm style house. There was just rooms everywhere and amenities and they had like, a meal share where people could donate meals so that the freezer was just stocked with food.

I would just. Come in and I would grab a takeaway container of my food. And then that. Was one less thing I had to worry about. But I always tell people I've had more. Issues checking into a. Motel. Yeah. Because when we got there, we there's only one midwife at the children's, obviously you. There's no kids having babies there. She did everything for us. She called the running back house and said I'm gonna figure this out. So we get there. And you said this is. George, we've got Roman over at the hospital and they said we'll show you the room. And you turned around and go. Is it upstairs? And they said, yeah, is. That an issue and. You said. Yeah, well, she's just had an emergency seizure. And they said no issue. We'll change the. Room right now. We'll get you downstairs. One. It's close to the door.

Yeah, they the IT was. Like the first. Door at the entrance, yeah. There was no issue. It was awesome.

Yeah, I I can't speak highly enough. The care that we received there.

And they have these little crochet. Cats on the beds.

Which are.

Donated by people, I'm not sure. If it's just one person that. Makes them in bulk and then donates them but. Hendricks and Roman still have their cats. It's very nice to. Look at them.

I've still got quite a lot of little mementos from romance time in NICU and I think. The one thing that I don't look at is a bereavement book that the hospital gave me that said, you know, the steps to take if your baby doesn't make it. And I wasn't ready to look at it. At the time. Romans turning free next month and I'm still not ready to look at it. But he's he's so perfect now.

He's the best.

He's an absolute wrecking golden child. He yeah.

So Romans. And when he was first diagnosed, he had. Not many words under his.

Belt, I think 3 words.

3 words mum, dad.

Mum, dad. No.

Mum. Dad.

No. Yeah. Loves. And it's been about, I'd say, 1314 months since diagnosis we've had.

Him in therapy.

And we've been doing the work with him.

And now he he's pretty verbal.

He won't shut up.

Can't shut him. Up. Granted, it's hard to understand a lot of the things he says, but. He's pretty good.

Yeah, he does still need grommets. Yeah. Which is an A and a hernia repair. So two more surgeries that. I'm just not ready for. But yeah. He has come so far from when we first started flagging things, and I'm glad that we did it so early because there are a lot of people that said no he can't, he can't be autistic this early. You can't know. But we looked at the signs and we know our son, yeah.

Very evident, all of the markers. Were there and I owe all of my diagnosis to my son. As well, yeah. Without him, I wouldn't have. I'd still wouldn't know that. I am ADHD and autism. So him and I got to go through the the autism. Journey together, which is a pretty. Cool thing we both got. To find out they were a bit spicy.

I think we all went through it together, everyone.

It was like dominoes it. Was like, first Roman fell. And then me and then.

No, I fell before you. Not officially diagnosed, but I was flagged and I feel a lot of regret because every time he would bring up ADHD to me, I would say no, you don't. Not everyone has ADHD. You don't have.

It you're just ******* lazy I.

Like it do them all. And then I was seeing my psych one day for my birth trauma regarding Roman. And most like turned around to me and said you're actually very intelligent. I'm surprised that you don't know that you have ADHD. I said at ******* what now? And she said, yeah, so you know how when you're stressed or you feel like you have no control, you'll go out to the backyard and you'll cut. Down a tree or you'll. Paint a fence or something like that. She said that's your compartmentalising because that's something you can have control over. That's why you've worked in meat works for 10 years because that's you. Working with your hands. Turning your brain off, you don't need to talk to anyone. You don't need to figure anything out. You know what?

You're doing. That's your dopamine. Time, yeah.

OK.

But yeah, that that was Henderson, Roman.

Now on to Salem, our baby. Alright, just a quick little paid rate. Welcome back. Thank you. Now we are onto the birth of Salem, our baby.

Hey, baby girl.

Is just turned. One last week. Possibly the. Most traumatic birth, yeah. And the reason? Why I will be getting a? We always planned for four. Yeah, but we're gonna have to call it quits.

At 3:00. Yeah. Yeah. So that one. Wasn't easy, I. Fully believed that. I would have been. Able to birth Roman if. I was given enough time and enough chance. So with Salem I researched everything. Everything I listen. To every podcast I read every book. I would sit down. At night with my Raspberry leaf. Tea and I would take my handful of pills.

We watched cold floor. And restore together.

Oh yeah, she had that to be. She's great. I. He was so well informed I refused to be induced because they said that this would be another macrosomic baby. So another one that's too big, but I said I've had one too big and one too small. I don't know what you want from me. I refused the induction. There was nothing medically wrong. With the baby. She was fine.

The whole breath, the the whole. Pregnancy was. Perfect. You are the picture of health.

Yeah, I was super active.

Super active, you are aiding well. You were. We were exercising together. For the first two pregnancies and subsequent births, I gained. A bunch of. Weight we both did. And for the pregnancy of Salem and. After birth I lost like 30 kilos. Like we were really good. We were really healthy. We were really dialled in. We were gunning for that feedback vaginal. Birth after caesarean.

Yeah. Yeah. So you had to. Do a lot of learning about. Feedbacks and the. Chance to feedbacks and I would come. Home and I would. Discuss the statistics. We went to a different hospital this time we did the V back class. And you weren't allowed. To say I was attempting to be back, I was having to be back and you know I would talk to my mom about it. And she said, I don't know why you. Put so much importance on it. How about? You just get your baby. Here safe and. Healthy and I. Said yeah, that's easy for someone to. Say, who hasn't had a caesarean? I really hate not being in control of my body and having a spinal and being told sit there, lay down 24 hours. Someone else will pick up your baby. I really, really struggled with it and with Rome, and I ended up with. A very rare form of staff. In my Siberian wound, it had seven holes and I believe. And I'm sure medical professionals are going to correct me. Staphylococcus langeness this. I want to say.

Very rare form of staff.

Yeah, my doctor came out.

The mortality rate was something like 7.

25%, but my doctor came out and said I genuinely don't know.

25, OK.

How you do this? I don't know where you get these things. So yeah, I didn't want to go through that. Again, you know after. A traditional bear. You know you can get up and walk and I put so much importance on it. Like I said I I've read all the. Books I took. All the meds I did, the yoga, I did. The call for a restore. I started going. To the appointments and I was getting a bit. Of pushback from. Some of the midwives. To the point where I got an. Exemption because it's still. During COVID in Melbourne I had an. Exemption for you to come to the appointments with me. And midwives started. They stopped saying out of pocket ****. When you came with me. And the reason I have.

Apart from 1:00.

Yeah. So I had one doctor because I was deemed quite.

If we're getting 2.

High risk I was. Seeing obstetricians, I wasn't really seeing that many. Midwives towards the end. She was talking to me about the risks of going post term because I refused the induction I. Said there's nothing wrong with baby. She's finding it. Her heart rate is fine and her growth is fine. Everything's fine. My placenta is good. We're doing well. And she just said, you know, this baby's a little bit too big and going post dates can be dangerous and. I said there's actually no statistics that show you what the dangers are past 42 weeks. Traditionally, birth happens between 37 and 40 weeks. And I said there's no statistics after 42 weeks and she said, yeah, between 40 and 42, the chances of you having his still birth. Doubles and that sent you spiralling and I. Said yes, it does double. From 0.05 to 0.1%.

You really had all of the information prior. To going into these meetings because you did not want to be swayed.

Oh yeah.

Or coerced into doing something. That you want to do. And I think that was really important and the distinction really needs to be made about informed consent and the power. Of doctors and obstetricians words. Especially if they for some reason decide to. Put their own personal. Two cents in and it could be those two.

Cents because of things that I've seen.

Dealt with in their medical career.

Which is what? Happened to us.

That's such a.

Small small part of such a vast ocean.

Of births, yeah.

So her kind of saying that I.

I acted up a.

Little bit and she ended up. Kind of stepping back and. Then leaving the room. And she came back in from memory. She came back in a few minutes later. And sat down and she was like. I'm really, really worried. And I'll let you continue because. It still makes me angry, yeah.

She just thought and told me that I was being irresponsible and she said. I'm just worried. That your baby's not going to make it. And I repeated to. Her that there are. No statistics past 42 weeks that you can show me if. You can give me a number. Or a case study. Or reviewed peer study or something like that. And she said there's no studies because after 42 weeks, babies turned. To mush and die in their.

Mothers verbatim.

And I said my baby is not pastor. So it turns out.

I I blacked out at that stage. No, I saw absolute ******* red. And I was just. Bewildered, I had no words like. Who says that to someone? Your baby will. Turn to mush and die.

And die in you. Yeah. So that doctor actually ended up saying that to us because she personally went post dates. And her daughter was born with cerebral palsy.

Which is.

A horrible thing I would never wish that. Upon any mother. Because that's what happened to her. Doesn't mean that that was what was going to happen to us. I really know that because we lodged a formal complaint, an entire investigation against that obstetrician was launched. And after that I started. Seeing Farrah, who was? The non binary obstetrician who. We're sorry. Happy to. Let me do my thing. They agreed that I could have an elective caesarean at 42 + 4. And they said that's as late as we will. Let you go and I said, well, no. Such thing as let me go. And and we're great to that because we said no. Way in this world, will I? Still be pregnant at 42 + 4. So we agreed after 42. Weeks. I would go in for a. Scan and monitoring pretty much every. Day there was one point where we were down at the imaging and they called out my name and I stood up and the woman. Because you don't look 42 weeks. Pregnant and I said, well, what are you? Meant to look like at 42 weeks. Pregnant. And she goes. I don't know. Sweaty. Sweaty.

Out of breath. Out of breath, almost needing a wheelchair.

I said no. I'm good like this baby and I'm doing well. And I think every. Day after 42 weeks when we did the monitoring, we would do stretch. And sweeps which? If you don't know it, Google it it's. It's not great. No one likes.

You can't be insecure as a man if if you're going through those things because the amount of people I have seen inside. You after three births. Is astounding. You had. A. A trans man, a non binary. They then and.

Two transmen pretty much.

Every gender and race under the sun inside you. It's quite astounding.

Yeah, and. Is that they actually have to specifically request. The people with long fingers. Because I have a pretty far. Back activity so.

A little weekend.

So yeah, we started. Going in for this directions weeks. And we were really hopeful that something would. And I think it. Got to. Again, 42 and four. And I thought. I was in Labour, I thought this. Was go time. I got mum. To come around and watch the kids. And we went to. Hospital because I said I. Want to be comfortable? I want to be. Where I'm going to give birth. And and we went there, I laboured for a day and it just it stopped. And one of the midwives said, look, this is against medical advice. And obviously I'm not telling you this, but. Go home. She said go home or go rent an. Airbnb somewhere. I can tell that you're getting stressed out being here. You feel like you're on display and you need. To perform and it's not happening. I had birth erectile dysfunction. It just.

Yeah. We we went into birth number. Three very much wanting. Or you wanted to feel like a human and not. Like a patient or a no.

OK.

I wasn't a patient. I was a birthing woman. Yeah, like I wasn't sick. I was there to. Give birth and. That was what my body was designed to do. You know, why did I need to be poked and prodded and told I wasn't allowed to leave a room or I wasn't allowed to? Be in a. Bath like tell me what to do, yeah.

So it was a. Little too far for my comfort to. Go home. So we ended up. In an Airbnb. Which was a.

Beautiful Airbnb. I had looked. At that before and like I said, I did all of the research that I needed to do. And yeah, it was a. Good Airbnb. It had a comfy bed, it had a bath it. Had a fireplace. You went. You brought me a yoghurt bowl and I laboured. You, slept most of the night. And I'm glad that we got that because you got a decent sleep.

I was refreshed and ready to go for when. When it was go time.

And you and you pushed.

For it, I wanted to stay up with you. And I wanted to help you and do things. And you're just. Like *******. Just leave me alone. Yeah, like let. Me do this. I'm in my zone. Go sleep. Go have a bath. You do. You let me do me. Yeah. And you are really, really. Stringent on that?

So at that time, you weren't. Helpful to me. Yeah. And so why not get?

Wasn't needed.

Sleep while you could, yeah. And so I laboured there for the night and then we went back into hospital and not a lot happened and I agreed to have my waters broken. I think at 2:00 PM that day. And and I told them my my. Walls are very tough. I'm a strong lady. This is going to. Be hard to do. And they laughed and said that's ********. No one has tough waters and then, lo and behold, took three people to break my waters. And couldn't.

They kept trying to just use their. Fingers to snap it. And you were like. You're gonna need.

A hook. Yeah. And then even after the hook. They needed scissors, so I. Know what I'm talking about.

We did that.

You know, I had my. Waters broken. I hadn't had any pain relief and I laid it hard in the. Shower for quite a while. When they did break my waters, they. Were full of meconium. Which they said is to be expected. When you go that far post dates, but Salem wasn't showing any signs of distress. At that point. And then I labour in the shower for a few hours. I'm having four strong contractions every 10 minutes. I think I ended up getting to 8 centimetres. And you said, babe, you. Need to get out of the shower because I. Get in the shower for hours at. This point, and it's no I don't want to. And you sort. Of you know, just come out for a little bit, come out and talk to your husband, see what's happening. I got out and. I felt pretty ill. Straight away and you looked at my feet and you said it's happening.

Again, yeah, they blew up real quick.

Yeah. So we ended up. I didn't have a lot. Of monitoring at that stage just. Because I didn't want to, I didn't want to be strapped, strapped onto things. It was my personal choice. And then they hooked me up to the monitoring. My heart rate was 190 beats per. Minute Salems was 90 for a baby. The average is like 140 to 160, so hers was 90 and my blood pressure was 190 over. 110. So this became.

For anyone that doesn't understand.

Blood pressure. That's not ******* good. Pretty high, yeah.

Not good at all.

So that became an. Emergency pretty quickly. And one thing you can do to relax my heart rate and you know sort of get the baby in a more normal spot. Is of course, an epidural. And again, we we did the whole shebang. We explained, I don't like needles. I don't want to do it. They said we won't do it if we're not sure they. Right. So they got the epidural. In this woman probably would have been. Younger than me, which? Great. If you got into this. Business when you were young, but it did. Concern me a little bit.

It's great if you like Doogie Howser. Yeah.

Yeah, like the good dog. Hmm.

OK.

And so she. Got the epidural in and I said, considering I've had the epidural, I'm still feeling quite a lot of pain. And they said, Oh no, it takes a while to kick in. It took quite a while. And eventually they ended up doing some more tests on sale and. They did a scalp lactate tests. Where they draw some blood from the top of her head and it. Tells us how stressed she is. So they took the blood from the top of her head and then they said, look, the our machines. Not working did that for. No reason. So I got to 8 centimetres with. The epidural I can still feel. A lot, but they said. Her heart rates not recovering from your contractions. And I said to them, they said it's your choice. If you wanna go for a Caesar. We have the theatre ready for you, but you need to make that call because we know how important this decision. Is for you. And I let it. Play out and I spoke to Carter and he. Said I'll support you in anything you do. But I said it took me over 2 hours to push you out, Hendrix 2.9 kilos. And I said I feel like this baby's bigger. So I didn't think. They would have. Dealt well with the. Pushing. So I think it was 10:00 PM. That we decided. We were going to do the caesarian. And they take me down to theatre and he gets his scraps on, you know, drill.

That was a quite emotional conversation because. Just all of the preparation. That you had done all of the work. That we both put in. All of educating ourselves, all of positive. Mind work that we did all for it to. Kind of come. Crashing down in that moment and then. Put all of our stuff. Aside and be like this?

This yeah.

This isn't what's best for us. This is what's.

Best for our. Yeah, it took a lot of pride. Swallowing and it also was. I'm not going to say it's. Harder for me cause. Of course not, but it was. It was incredibly hard to see. You go through that and kind of see that. Decision wash across your face. When you come to the realisation that all of it, I know that I know what you're like and you would have been very. Much like all of this. ******* work was for nothing. Yeah. My body has. Failed me. I'm not a true woman. I'm a ******* failure.

I mean competent woman, yeah.

Yeah, I know. I and I knew that all in that time in my heart. Truly broke for you.

Yeah, but at the.

End of the day, it wasn't about. Us it was about her and that decision. As hard as it was was the right. Decision in in, in retrospect.

Ohh yeah yeah, it got a lot worse.

It got. A lot worse. Please continue.

Yeah. So we decided to go to theatre and it wasn't a great decision for me to make. It was very hard, but I knew it was. The right thing to do. We get in there and there's little lay you. Down on the bed and they have ice packs and they say, can you feel this? Can you feel this? They're sort of testing. Out how patchy your epidural is and I said Yep. I can feel that. And they said, oh, that's weird. You shouldn't be able to. I can I. I told you. Guys that, yeah, the drill was patchy. So we did that. We did the ice test and they said no, look, we need to take. It out and we need to put a spinal in. Which I didn't want to. Do I don't want another needle? In my back, please. But they said that's. Really the only option? So you know I'm Naked and cold and afraid I'm about to have another needle in my back and. I don't know where. You I think you were behind me. Because I had another. Dude in front of me holding. My hands.

I was stroking your hair.

Yeah. And they put the needle in and they said they do the spinal. They laid me down. They said, look, 15 minutes. You're not going to. Feel anything from? The ******* down and. We'll get this show on the road. 15 minutes later I said look, I can still. Feel quite a lot and I said no, you can't.

I said, yeah, Ken.

And they're putting the eyes on me and yeah, I can still feel everything. And they said Ohh, that's weird. Can you move your? Legs and.

They did the kick test. They put their. Hands above her legs and like, can you kick up into our hand?

Yeah, easy, easy. I couldn't play the game.

Soccer. It's straight up. Yeah, there's no.

Issues. So they thought that was pretty odd. And they sat me up and they said. Well, we're not sure why. That happened. It might have been in the wrong spot. We'll give it another go and I said great, another needle in the back. Dream come true. I was pretty. Pretty emotional at. This point I had been awake for days I had had. That many needles and been. Poked and prodded and I just wanted baby to be born. So we do the next vinyl and. They said Yep, that one's all good. Everything. 'S worked. We've had supervisors watching over it. Great 15 minutes from now.

They they they had a.

An an An an aesthetician it's hard to say that one and even just.

Whatever. They had, one of the needle guys come in. Who, who? Who was? Like 30 years on. The job proper veteran proper pro. He was like he was like, look royalty. He walked in and. Everyone was. Like they brought out the.

Big guns. They they called him from. Home and he was like, let me. Jump in the Maserati and. I'll come over.

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, came in with his *******.

Because they thought it was weird, they said one. One spider it should have. Done it.

Yeah. So he. Came in and he ended. Up doing 3 at the same time. He did one where it should be one above. And one below he was like this do the. Trick. Yeah, I watched him.

So that.

Pump 3 needles into her spine simultaneously. Thinking like she's gonna end up in. A ******* wheelchair. After this, she'll never walk again.

Yeah, that was the final try.

And lo and behold. 15 minutes later, she still felt every felt, everything and could. Still kick up. And they I had. I was looking around the. Room and there was an entire team of surgeons.

And an atheists and midwives.

All looking at each other just being.

Like, that's so weird.

So in the end, I think he put it down to either you're a medical marvel, yeah.

And there is.

No logical explanation as to why it didn't work. Or all of the. Drugs they put into your back. Were from a dodgy. Batch. It was probably just saline.

But but in saying that they they did an investigation and everyone else who got spinal that day from that batch all. Yeah, right. So they said it could be something. To do with. My spine, and that's why we've had issues, they said. If I ever want to have another baby before I get pregnant, I need to have CT scans done to show where the needle needs to go. But anyway, as horrible. As that sounds to go through all of those needles, and so there was three tries of the spinal the 1st, the 2nd and then the third that had three and they said one of these needs to work because we only get three tries. After all that, it didn't work and they said. Waiting to put you on. Which was terrifying, but it was a good thing because the fact that I was put under means that you weren't allowed to be in there. And I think if you were to see what was going to come, you would have been pretty damaged because. The Caesarian gets underway. We're expecting a big baby. We knew she was going to be big. I think the surgeons were a little bit less prepared for big. Because they didn't quite make the decision large enough, and when they were lifting Salem out of my pelvis, she tore my uterus in half and she ripped completely through my left uterine artery. And I lost 3.6 litres of blood. In the first minute. So I went to sleep. With one cannula in and, I woke. Up with six.

And I.

How many litres of bladder in? The normal human body.

I think when you give. Birth it's for.

You lost the vast majority.

Yeah. So when I woke up, I, Carter wasn't there. Salem wasn't there. No one was there. But I woke up with all these cannulas. And I asked what happened and they said it didn't go great. But your baby is alive. And I said, I know that that's meant to be good news. Like I need more details. Salem was born at 12:28 AM and I didn't meet her until 6:00 AM. I had had a doctor. Come around and explain to me what had happened. She said I had a balloon in my uterus that was inflated to stop the bleeding. They explained how much blood I lost, how much drugs had been put into me. I had three blood transfusions and one iron infusion. I had a pick line, which is. The actuarial cannula. And yeah, I think if I had been. Awake. And if you had been. There to see that. But Salem was great, she. She was born a toddler. She was 4.5 kilos. She came out, she had no verdicts on her, so she had none of the newborn smell or the newborn drunk because she.

Was just so overcooked.

She didn't have. Any newborn fluff because she been in there? I had said them at 43 weeks.

He's like an 89 year old Floridian. This is just just the body like. Pop tan leather.

Yeah. So, look, it's as hard as that birth. Was for me. I think it. Was harder for you because I was asleep. I didn't.

Know it's always weird when I hear you talk about it because you always. Like all of the. Decisions that have, like all the powers that be your frame of mind, is like your care and worry for me, which is such a weird thing to kind of step outside of and think about, because it's just like you're going through it. You're. The one that nearly ******* died. And you're like, yeah, well, you're the one that. Nearly had to raise three kids.

By yourself, yeah.

I mean, I've talked about my experience. With that birth. Previously and how I was alone in it. In in the birding ward for. I think it was like 5 hours, four, four or five hours. Something like. And then I heard the cries of my baby being, you know. Rolled into the bedroom. Meeting her for the first time, I've got the. Video of it and everything and then. We got to go down and see you. I think it was another hour after that. Yeah, but I'd spent with her by myself.

So you fed her first.

IPad FF.

I fed her first. I fed her. Model and we did skin to skin. And I remember feeling like not only, like, fearful of your health.

But I remember.

Feeling immensely guilty, as if I was taking an experience away from you. Cause I I was like you know.

Even though I'm dead and that's an.

Equally important role to mum. I felt very much like these first experiences. With newborn. Should be with mum. Yes, keep the scheme first feeding.

All of that. And and.

All I knew is that you were. Still being worked on? Yeah, I. The surgeon came and told me. That you were still in theatre. You weren't. Even in recovery.

And it was meant to be what 1/2?

Hour surgery 45 minutes is routine. Yeah, and yeah, it was like 4 1/2. Five hours later. So I yeah. I didn't know what. My future was even going to look like so. Definitely still a lot of birth. Trauma that is unresolved. Within myself and probably within you, and I think that stuff will carry forever.

But I think.

Overall, it really. Really. Lens to. The lives and the family we've created, who are very, very close. We tell each other we love each other. Multiple times a day. We lose our **** with our kids. We grow and we land and we live. Very, very much just as.

A unit and it.

******* special. And I love you endlessly. The the sacrifices that you've made. And the things that you've done for our family and to grow and to. Just exist together.

We'll do it all again.

Very special. No *******. Work I'm I'm getting the sneak. As much as like.

As much as I'd love to have another.

One yeah.

I would need to grow an extra set of arms. And an extra nervous system to deal with all.

Of the ******* stress fair, yeah.

So yeah, that's our story. Now we've got a four. Year old girl Hendricks A2 year. Old boy Roman. And the now one year old girl, Salem. You have just commenced school. Yeah. So you are working full time and also going to school to become a chef. Which is your lifelong dream and your lifelong passion? I'm gearing up to start school as. A 36. Year old. To become a. We've got Hendricks starting school next year. It's all happening. Yep. Life goes on.

And in the process of that, we're all. Learning how far along in the spectrum. We are, you may Hendrix, Roman, probably Salem. I I think the odds aren't too. Good for her.

No, I reckon I reckon. If the first four are there.

But look, I wouldn't. Have it any other way? Everything you.

I think we all perfectly complement each other. We all bring strengths and weaknesses to the table. And it's very much like a. It's like a 5 sided. Yin and Yang. Kind of thing we all come together and create perfect balance, chaotic balance. But balance nonetheless.

I reckon that might wrap.

It up. Is there anything? That you would like to add. Or subtract or anything. You want to throw out in the world.

Not to the world. Just. Just to the Touched Out podcast, but I'm sorry you're really proud. You you had spoken about doing this for so long and. To see you. Doing it and to be featured as a guest. I'm very proud of. You thank you. You did the thing.

I did the thing.

It took a decade, but.

I did the thing I finally. I finally found the thing that. Fills my cup. And fills other people's cups too. Which is awesome. Yeah, super awesome, you know. Where this is the final episode of season one. Excuse me. I don't do compliments well. Final episode 13 episodes with. The Mini Mother's Day episode, which was incredibly hard to. To film but incredibly healing. And cathartic at the same time. I think we've just hit around about 23. 100 listens across all of those episodes. 105. Subscribers on Spotify. 50 Odd subscribers on Apple. Are almost perfect. Five star ratings across. The board. Number one, chart placements on good pods in. That pregnancy charts, ADHD charts and autism charts. I've accomplished a hell of a lot more, well, infinitely more than what I anticipated. I I thought I'd have a couple of listeners that would like friends chopping me up and speaking. I don't want to feel bad for him like. I'll give it a 5 star. That I've I've. Created a pretty, pretty awesome little community. I've got a good set of followers on Instagram. Who? Their thoughts towards new episodes quite consistently, and I'm incredibly thankful and blessed to have all of that from something that I created so.

From the bottom of.

My heart. Thank you. Thank you my.

Wife for joining.

Me, as I said, it was really, really requested.

And anticipate it.

You'll regret that now.

I wouldn't be.

Able to have it. Without you, without your. Support, so I appreciate you. I love you. And I love.

Wake up. It's another day. Try and find a way to make it so my life is a better place. If there's one thing I see, then you only thing it's me. It's knowing that I'm trying to. Make a get up. Put it all on me and all the other nonsense coming. There's something I know. It's nine to let go. Just knowing that.