Mail Order Education: Daniel reflects on Education, Autism, Addiction, Sexuality, Recovery and Fatherhood

In this conversation, Daniel Van Nice opens up about his mental health struggles, including a recent rough patch with sleep issues. He reflects on his neurodivergent sixth sense and his realization of being on the autism spectrum. Daniel shares his experiences of being homeschooled and the challenges he faced when transitioning to public school. He also discusses how becoming a parent saved his life and the joy he finds in being a dad. Lastly, Daniel opens up about his battle with addiction and the journey to overcome it. This conversation explores the challenges and triumphs of addiction recovery, the tragic consequences of addiction, the importance of support groups, the struggles and changes in life, fighting for parental rights, disappointment and resilience, struggles with housing and mental health, reaching out for help, emotional openness with children, and the power of asking for help.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• Recovery from addiction is often a roller coaster journey with ups and downs.
• Addiction can have tragic consequences, including death and imprisonment.
• Support groups, such as SMART Recovery, can be instrumental in the recovery process.
• Life after addiction can bring new challenges and changes.
• Fighting for parental rights can be a difficult and emotional process.
• Disappointment and setbacks are part of life, but resilience is key.
• Struggles with housing and mental health can impact overall well-being.
• Asking for help is a sign of strength and can lead to healing and support.
• Being emotionally open with children can help them navigate difficult emotions.
• Being true to yourself and not conforming to societal expectations is important.
• Never be ashamed to ask for help and support in times of need.

Head to the podcast Instagram and hit the bio link to sign up for preorder today.

Transcript

Daniel

Carter: All right, so today we've got Daniel from Colorado. How you going Daniel? Hey, how's it going? Not too bad over here. Good. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining me. Yes. How you going today? You good? I'm doing better. I 

Daniel: had a rough go this past week, but I'm at the, I think at the best end of it. I kind of scraped out mental health wise or illness wise.

Yeah, mental health. So it's really random to one of the things I've always been able to count on is I get tired and I can go to sleep and I sleep 7 to 8 hours a night. So no matter how bad things are going, I can be like, Oh, I'm starting to get tired. Even if it's eight o'clock, I'm just going to go to bed and I have kind of a solid night's sleep to get away, wake up, feel a bit better.

And then, yeah, about a week ago I just started waking up after three or four hours of sleep and being wide awake and I couldn't go back to sleep. And it was Oh no, it was an instant panic attack too. I woke up just very, very nervous and anxious and I just kind of wrote it out for a while took some of the medication my doctor gave [00:01:00] me, some new, I think it's called hydroxyzine or something, but it doesn't work quite as well, but So we, we, we got through that last Sunday and went to bed and it happened again.

And so that next morning I just went to the urgent care and I was like, you got to help. I can't sleep. They gave me some some sleeping pills and it's like, I'm good. And I went to bed that night. Same thing happened again after taking the sleeping pill. Oh 

Carter: no. Oh no. So 

Daniel: I made an appointment with my regular doctor and a couple days ago got in and was able to get a better medication.

It worked. I was able to finally sleep a full night's sleep. And that definitely helped. But in the process I I went and registered with a, like a local health company and started seeing a therapist, which I haven't done in a while. So I did that. And then they offer group therapy sessions. I went to like an art group therapy and then the next two days or the past two days I've just gone to the lake, just gone out on the paddle board by [00:02:00] myself with music and just been in my own world and tried to relax.

And it's been, it's been phenomenal. I feel so much better. It seems like it's been far more than a week. 

Carter: I got it. So, yeah, that's a lot to happen in a week and a lot, a lot to kind of get accomplished in a way with different therapies and different self care tactics. Yeah. Sorry to kind of drop straight into the serious talk.

How about we we Go with a little bit about your history, a little bit about yourself and your family and and then we can get back into the heavy stuff 

Daniel: that's okay. Yeah, I should have warned you. I was like, I've been in it for a week. No. So one of the things I was thinking about when I was trying to think of things to talk about in this episode is I feel like there's kind of this autism.

Or neurodivergent sixth sense, looking back at my life with people I've clicked with, whether it be romantic partners or like best friends, that sort of thing. I think all of them have been on the spectrum and it explains why it's always [00:03:00] been very few people that I've been able to actually click with, engage with, you know, more than just kind of pals.

And, and so I think that's, that's one thing that I've noticed looking back, but I mean, I've, I've known I was different. Since I was eight years old. I remember my mom putting me to bed one night and I was telling her, I have to count to a certain number to fall asleep. And if I do it wrong, it hurts.

And I didn't know how else to explain that. You know, it seemed weird just to word it that way. And she just looked at me and was like, well, sweetie, if you just say a prayer, Jesus will make it all better. Now go to bed. And then that was it. That was all of the talk we ever had. And a few years later, I remember there's a celebrity called Mark Summers.

He used to host a TV show called Double Dare on a cable station here in the States. And he came out as having OCD. And I'd never heard of that. And I was like, wait, he has to count too? Okay. So this is a thing. This isn't just me. And honestly, it's just been a series of those things throughout my life.

And then I feel about the last five, six years. I've really [00:04:00] just. I've done a lot of research myself as well as seeing doctors and it's like, I've definitely somewhere on the spectrum. I'm still waiting to be officially placed diagnosed. But I about 90 percent sure it's a mixture of, you know, ADHD, OCD and maybe Asperger's or autism spectrum disorders.

But yeah, it's, it's a bunch of different things. I know it's And you might notice this throughout the interview. It's difficult sometimes for me to know when it's my turn to talk or when it's my turn to stop talking. And I tend to word things the wrong way in the moment versus the way I hear it in my head.

And sometimes people take that the wrong way, which can be very inconvenient. But yeah, it's, it's just been kind of a journey. And I mean, looking back, I, I know my older daughter, Is definitely on the spectrum as well as pretty sure my youngest, although there again, we're waiting on an actual diagnosis.

So 

Carter: and so you've got two daughters. Is that right? 

Daniel: I have two daughters and a son. [00:05:00] My son is, he'll be turning 23 this year. My oldest daughter is 20 going on 21. And then the youngest just turned eight. And Yeah, it's been great. I've heard someone else say this and I, I it's definitely true for me too.

And being a dad saved my life. Before my first daughter was born, I wasn't going anywhere. Good. I'd already been in jail once as a 17 year old. I didn't hurt anybody. I put a bunch of newspapers in a shopping cart, covered it in lighter fluid, lit it on fire, and we used a car to ramp it off of a big pile of dirt, because there's nothing else to do in West Texas.

We got caught doing it. Just, just, just general teenager bullshit. Yeah, yeah, just, just fucking around, and it's enough to get arrested for criminal mischief. So yeah, I met my wife right around that time and my first wife and we clicked. I almost positive she's on the spectrum too and had my daughter very soon after.

But she had already had a son. He's 20 year and 18 months when I met her from a previous relationship and the father just [00:06:00] wasn't in the picture. And I felt bad about him not having the same last name and potentially feeling very different or left out. With us all, you know, I was married, my daughter was going to have the same last name.

So we went through a process. It took close to a year, I think about nine months. Going to court, paid a couple thousand dollars and ended up adopting him. And since his real dad was never there when he was born, He didn't have his last name on the birth certificate. So he actually has my last name on his birth certificate as well as being adopted into my last name.

And then my daughter was born right around that time and we just, we did what we had. I worked whatever jobs I could, usually at least two jobs. I tried to be home during the day when they were little. I've always been a big believer that those are the best years, you know, they're going to not want to be around you soon enough.

Just soak up the times that they do while you can. And got a lot of flack for that. I definitely should have gone to school, but you know, [00:07:00] I just did enough to get by so I could stay home and hang out with the kids as much as I could. And I, who did you get flack from? Honestly in laws it's always been in laws.

And then, you know, they tend to have a pretty good way of getting the daughter on board with not being okay with things, but honestly, in, so what painted you as 

Carter: like a deadbeat dad kind of thing, like you're not doing enough to support 

Daniel: the family, lazy, you know, you're not, you're not doing anything.

You're not earning enough. You're not being a real man. And that's definitely a Southern thing too. It's gotten a lot better moving away from the South, but If you're not doing the right things, act in the right way, walk in the right walk, you're, you're different. And if you're different, there's, there's something wrong.

Which that's kind of always been the story. 

Carter: Southern states are very, very very setting their ways, aren't they? 

Daniel: They really are. And I lived in the second reddest, which means most far right conservative district in the entire country. Yeah, it doesn't pay to be different there. Hey, no, no, it was it was [00:08:00] interesting and I never really came to terms with understanding what it was until I was 18 or 19. But I've always had an attraction to both men and women or at the time, you know, my peers. And I never really acted on it as much with.

The males as I did with the females, but it was always there and it kind of made me realize. All right, you need to hide whatever this weird thing that I didn't know is being neurodivergent. You need to hide being different as a dad and a man and you need to hide your true self because. None of this is going to be okay.

So I kind of learned to turn on the mask. And get really good at it. I mean, I can, when I went to the mechanic or, or somewhere where I'd be around, you know, the good old Southern boys, I'd put on my Southern accent and be like, well, I just need my car worked on, you know, I'm a regular boy as to not seem different.

Because when I talk like this nine times out of 10, people say, Oh, Hey, you sound like you're from Austin, which is a, you know, [00:09:00] Southern way of saying like, oh, you, you seem like a liberal hippie weirdo. You don't belong here. Okay. 

Carter: Okay. Yep. I'm trying to think it's so funny how people can say that you sound like you're from somewhere and it's, and it's supposed to be like a slur, like an insult.

Daniel: Yeah, there's a lot of that in the south. Another popular one as well. Bless your heart, which is southern for fuck you. 

Carter: Oh, okay. 

Daniel: I reckon I've probably 

Carter: had someone from Texas say that to me before. And I 

Daniel: took it really sincerely. Yeah, they can have the nicest ways and also the very un nicest ways of letting you know how they feel.

Yeah. But you know there's plenty of your heart will bless your heart it's either you're an idiot or fuck you

it's it's condescending of course I can see it yeah 

Carter: hundred percent so tell me a little bit about you growing up so I see that you on your submission form you put down that you were homeschooled and being homeschooled [00:10:00] by a family in the South that was.

Incredibly religious. Yes. Must have must have been a little bit more of a different experience. Why don't you tell me a little bit about that and how that shaped you into your teen years and into your young adult life? 

Daniel: Goodness. Well, it started after kindergarten. They went straight at it in the very first grade.

And they tried to take a break halfway through third grade. I think it was one of the several times my mother had some mental health issues and our life always kind of came to a standstill or things changed or I went to stay with a relative or, and this time it was we're going to put them in this Christian private school.

For the second half of third grade long story short, that school was closed down by summer. I had gotten into a verbal altercation with the principal's son and in return, the principal took me in his office and beat me with a wooden paddle not just on my butt, but on my legs, and So I got to have the fun [00:11:00] experience of my mom and a female attorney taking pictures of me in my underwear to get the bruises.

And so it, it, instantly it was like, okay, you don't know where it's safe. Nothing like I get, I get physical, verbal, emotional abuse at home. And when I go to these other places where they're supposed to be nice and kind and Christlike, they do the same thing. So after that, they Decided to order this different school or this different curriculum and it was a video program so what that means is Every day i'd put in a video cassette And turn it on and it would be my english class and there's a video camera in the back of an english class in florida And you just sit there and do whatever along and then you put in the next one for the next class and so on so at that point my folks just thought he's good.

Let's just leave him to it. He's nine. That's good You So I would, they would both go to work and I would stay home and do my schooling and then just be on my own for a [00:12:00] while. I didn't really have many childhood friends just because outside of like a few homeschool groups. My hours were always different from kids in school.

You know, I was done with school, they were in school. By the time they were out of school I was doing something else or I wasn't allowed to go outside or whatever. So I just kind of was on my own and I think that shaped me into being very introverted. And enjoying my, my space, my free time, my recharging of the battery which I have to do every day, I feel like still.

But it also, I feel like I grew up trying to figure out what human interaction is through sitcoms and TV shows. Which I thought was what normal families were just because it's like, Oh, you know, they're friendly, they're happy. Like it's bright and color. This is what real life is. This where I'm at is just something different.

And yeah, that was my view of things until halfway through ninth grade when my mom officially just gave up and they put me in regular public school [00:13:00] and Really quickly realized that's not how people are. I walk in acting like some goofy sitcom trope and everyone's immediately like, what is wrong with this guy?

And I'm like, no, no, no. It's me trying to fit in. Like it's making it worse. 

Carter: I Can, I can I can picture you like walking into your first class, like Kramer from Seinfeld, just like throwing the door open. Well, hey, guys. 

Daniel: Yeah, I definitely tried to be the class clown and, and goof on, you know, anything just to be like, please just don't be mean to me.

Yeah. But yeah, I did that. And then. 

Carter: So, so, I mean, you, you. You say that you were homeschooled, but it doesn't sound like you were really homeschooled. It sounds like you were you had a mail order education. I did. For the first part of your life, which is pretty wild. I've never, I've never heard of anything like that.

It's called the Becker curriculum. Must've been, oh yeah, it was, it must've been quite an experience to go from, from Viewing all of your human interactions through [00:14:00] sitcoms and VHS tapes of English classes and math classes to going to a public school. How did you find that transition? 

Daniel: It was pretty rough, as one would expect.

I like I said, I just tried to play the goofy class clown part, but it, it, it didn't work. And that was back when In the late nineties, when PE coaches, especially were just these chauvinistic jerks who didn't really care and would look the other way because boys need to learn or boys need to sometimes have the snot beat out of them to, to become real men and whatnot.

So a couple of different times I was just beat the crap out of me and pee out either out on the field or when he'd go into his office and we're on the basketball court inside, or it, it was not fun. I, it got to where I just didn't even. I would change out of my PE clothes into my regular clothes.

I wouldn't shower, I would just bolt out of there as fast as I could. So it was, it was a little rough. The 10th grade got a little bit easier. I think I kind [00:15:00] of adapted and learned to mask a little bit better. And found theater class and friends in theater. Which to this day I still feel like I was like, Oh, my people, the difference, the weirdos, the outcasts.

I feel like that's, that's where they tend to gravitate. And, and that helped me out a lot. Just feeling sense of camaraderie. But it lasted until I think three days into my junior year. The previous year I had been suspended. It was right after the Columbine school shootings had happened.

And some bullies in my school had placed some shotgun shells inside my locker and I reported it. And for whatever reason I was seen to be the threat because I had ammunition in my locker that I didn't put there. So I got suspended and in trouble and, you know, kind of labeled as that kid. So three days into the, my junior year, the principal had me in his office three days straight.

And the third day I just told him to go fuck himself. [00:16:00] Like literally was like, you know what? You can go fuck yourself. I'm done. And just walk. You can't talk to me that way. I was like, I know I'm leaving. Like, I don't care. And walked out of school had my parents had to sign off on it, but I went and just got my GED at 16 and started working fast food, movie theaters just different little jobs on the side to get me out of the house, but also make money so I could go do stuff on my own.

Carter: Yeah, well So was the shotgun shells in, in your locker meant as a threat towards you or were they trying to paint you as the next psycho? 

Daniel: I think both, I think both of them. Yeah, they it was, and I think maybe that's why it was the one who got in trouble is maybe something was said about it beforehand.

And then I, it looked like I was trying to make up a lie, but no, it was, it was definitely to, you know, say you're not welcome here. You don't want here. And that was back when You know, in, in the United States, there's a, the state Florida with a very interesting governor. And he [00:17:00] had the, what they call the don't say gay bill.

And I always thought that was ironic. Cause I was like, nobody said gay when I was in high school, other than to call something lame, they called it gay, but nobody called anybody gay. I got called other words before that I won't say. 

Carter: Yeah, definitely. Sorry. Give me two seconds. This is Hendricks. Say hi to Daniel.

Hi 

Daniel: Hendricks. That's so cool! My daughter has that same tablet. What do you want, 

Carter: baby? 

kids: My iPad keeps bonking my nose. 

Carter: Your iPad keeps bonking your nose? Well maybe don't let your iPad bonk you on the nose. Do you want to watch something else? What do you want to watch? I want 

kids: to play a game. 

Carter: You're not playing a game, baby.

I've already said that. You can watch a show. 

kids: Why can't 

Carter: I play a game? No, I 

kids: don't want 

Carter: to [00:18:00] watch a show. I'll put Willy Wonka on for you. You want Willy Wonka? I think I even have Willy Wonka on here, maybe. 

kids: Yeah, we do. I'll put some Willy Wonka on here one day. Yeah, 

Carter: we'll put Willy Wonka on. I'm so sorry, Daniel.

You're fine. I'm not in any rush.

He said he's not in any rush. Because him and I are having a good chat. Alright, let's put Willy Wonka on. You want the one with the Oompa Loompa song you like? Yeah. Okay. There you go, sweetheart. Love you. 

Daniel: Oh, you're good. I knew it would happen at some stage. Oh no, you're good. Like right as I was like in my head, like, should I say the word or nah, I don't want it to be another thing that potentially triggers somebody and there's no need to repeat certain words.

But, and then I see in the background, like, yep, nope, definitely not going to say it now. 

Carter: That 

Daniel: would be 

Carter: awful. That's all right, she can't hear anything. Well yeah, I mean, say, say anything you wish to say and, and. If at the [00:19:00] end you don't want it in there, we can always bleep it out. I got you. I'm sure.

Yeah, so sorry. We were up to don't say gay. Yes. And you always thought it was ironic. So can we can begin 

Daniel: from there again? So I always thought it was ironic because nobody said gay other than to call things lame in high school. They didn't call other people gay. I got called other words, but never gay.

So even though I wasn't out, even though I didn't fully understand, I feel like I was different enough that they could pick up on it. And which honestly I could have been fully a hundred percent heterosexual, which I don't know if that's a thing, but just have been a little bit different and maybe still had the same result.

But it certainly made me kind of be introspective and be like, all right, you know, it's. This might be a thing. Good luck. There was a time my parents randomly searched my room. And during this time I was writing a lot of parody songs of [00:20:00] popular music. I liked for whatever reason, I thought it was fun to just write parodies in my free time.

And they found this notebook full of them. And there was one song you might know it. I think the who originally sang it called my generation. And my parody was called my homosex relations. It's not clever, I don't claim for it to be, but they thought, oh my goodness. So I, we had to sit down and my mom's like, are you sure you're not gay?

I'm like, no, mom, I'm not. Why do you want to paint your fingernails and have earrings? And are you sure you're not? I'm like, no, no, mom, I'm not. But I mean, you get it enough times. You kind of go, well, am I, which I never put two and two together. That was when I was younger, looking back, I think I just really, really enjoyed being around certain friends or I'd see, you know, guys my age on TV and be like, man, it would be really cool to be friends with them.

Then I could be around them a lot. Oh, I bet it'd be fun to be around them. Not [00:21:00] fully realizing. It's like, Oh, I have a crush on this person. So it all kind of clicked. I think I was like 18 or 19 and realized I'm definitely bisexual, which is another unfortunate place to be because I'm straight passing as many people say.

So I'm too straight for. The, a lot of the queer crowd and I come off as too queer for a lot of the straight crowd.

Carter: Yeah, bisexual bisexuals are a bit polarizing in both communities, aren't they? They are. I think a lot of people are like, pick one or the other. You can't have the best of both worlds. Yeah 

Daniel: one of the. My former friends in back when I was working at the pride center in West Texas called it Buy now gay later.

It's like, oh, okay So it was it was always a joke, which I thought was kind I I you know I'm, not gonna get mad about it, but at the same time We're just trying to be so inclusive and accepting of [00:22:00] everybody and, you know, I even had a group for fellow bisexuals or pansexuals to meet up once a week and talk and kind of share our feelings and accomplishments, tragedies, whatever, and they would never promote it.

I always had to, you know, make the posts or, you know, You know, text people and, but the other meetups for other parts of the queer community were very heavily promoted and they even bought Facebook ads. So I, even there, I was like, okay, I guess it's not really welcome here. Or it's just not the hip thing right now.

So that was, that was interesting, but yeah, I I'm still proud. I helped open along with two lovely gentlemen from Florida, the only pride center within a couple hundred miles in West Texas in that super red conservative district. And we would just go out in public and have meetings and just dress how we want, act how we want, and would get looks or comments and [00:23:00] Eventually people just stopped showing up at those places if they didn't want to be around us and we just claimed these different spots as our kind of safe spaces as it were.

And I really feel good about that. Honestly, there's, there are a couple of very tragic things that happened those first few years involving individuals. One of my friends, his boyfriend, someone attacked him and tried to kill him. And it was because he is a homosexual. And that was really, that, that shook everybody cause it was very close.

He was in the hospital and it just, and it's walking down the street, you know, places that I'd been a thousand times and it kind of refocused reality to, Hey, it's, you can, you can act that way. You can be that way. Be your true self, but masking is probably the safest choice still. And that was, that just, that really got, that really got me.

But everybody's okay. Healed up [00:24:00] fine. They're living a wonderful, beautiful life. I believe in Houston now a much safer space for queer individuals, but yeah, it's always been an interesting, I feel like I've, Tried to find where I fit for like most of my life. 

Carter: I mean, you've got a little bit going on for you.

You know, you've got your neurodivergence, your ACD, your ADHD your, your orientation. And kind of tackling all of that while not really having a true sense of what the world truly is in your younger and formative years because you were raised by VHS tapes and and parents that probably weren't.

Overly forthcoming with talking about mental health and, and things like that and just kind of Any, any sort of issues you have would, the answer would be to pray to God. Would have would have been incredibly difficult to navigate life as you know it. So, I mean, the fact that you here and [00:25:00] happy and healthy today.

Albeit probably covered in battle scars, it's, it's pretty astounding. So, thank you so much for sharing your journey with me. It's, it's something to be very, very proud of, I think. The fact that you're able to navigate those murky waters and come out. The the lovely and friendly and kind individual you are today.

You're too kind. So you did put down in your in your form that becoming a parent saved your life. Absolutely. Do you want to tell me a little bit more about that and a little bit about your parenthood journey? 

Daniel: Absolutely. So when my daughter was born and I adopted my son that previous, I believe, two years of being a teenager was not as great.

Like I said, I left high school, so I was just working on my own and by myself a lot. I started drinking heavily at 16, which Is, is always ironic to [00:26:00] me. I had a drinking problem from 16 to 21 and the second I was legal, I just didn't really care for it anymore. So I don't know if I'm just a defiant individual, but at its worst, I was drinking what I call the handle, which is about two liters of vodka every week.

So I'd go home and I'd pour several shots worth into whatever mix I wanted and just get drunk by myself in my room. And I did that every day. And so that I started going down a very dark path. I had thankfully unsuccessful, but several attempts to end my life during that time. So it, it was really wonderful when the opportunity came along to be a dad.

I had, I've been an uncle since I was eight years old. My two siblings are much older. So. I've had, you know, younger kids to help care for since that age, you know, during summers or Christmas or whatnot. And it was my favorite part because I wasn't just me alone in the house. There was someone else and it was a little kid and I could [00:27:00] play with them how I wished someone had played with me at that age or which was something I remember very vividly.

I'd remind myself over and over as a kid, don't forget what it's like to be eight. Don't forget what it's like to be 10. Don't forget to what it's like to be a teenager and everybody treat you like you're just some dumb idiot teenager And I always wanted to just remember I was like remember this because you can do this better When it comes time for you to have your kids So when that opportunity happened, I was just so overjoyed It it lifted me out of a lot of that darkness.

I'll be still drinking not as heavily but very regularly and When my oldest daughter was a baby and I believe it was January, 2003, I had a very horrible fight with my wife. We had been intimate a few times after we got married and that was it. So we had been just very unhappy roommates pretty much from the beginning.

And I, after a year of this, I was just spent [00:28:00] and drinking and depressed and not thinking clearly. So I decided to go into the bedroom, lock myself in there, and I took a bottle of vodka and a bottle of sleeping pills, and I didn't stop until both of them were gone. Somewhere in my stupor, I don't even remember doing this, apparently I picked up the phone and called my mother, and apologized for killing myself.

And she called the police, and my wife, and I vaguely remember being put on a Like a gurney and being let out. I, I remember my wife very openly flirting with one of the firemen. And then being held down and strapped down and people yelling at me for fighting. 

Carter: Go 

Daniel: ahead. 

Carter: Yeah. 

Daniel: Can you please continue?

Are you sure? 

Carter: That's okay. She can just, she just wants cuddles. Oh, okay. Okay. 

Daniel: So they, I remember waking up in little pieces, like getting strapped down. It felt like they were choking me because they were putting, intubating, they were putting the tubes down my throat. One to breathe and one to pump my stomach.

They dump a bunch of charcoal down there. Those tubes [00:29:00] scrape up your throats to all hell. And I woke up and it's just my dad sitting there next to me going, what happened? I don't know. I'm sorry. I don't know. It's just been bad. You know, and I don't think I was very open about everything that was going on.

I was kind of ashamed and wanted to hide. Things going on with the marriage, but I, I didn't really tell them much of anything other than I was unhappy and that I wouldn't do it again, which is a promise I've kept. I haven't ever attempted since then, thankfully, but that, that was a, a rough start, but focusing back on raising my kids and enjoying being a dad in these little moments, I mean, you can have the worst day and five minutes of cuddles with a little one.

Oh my God. I still miss it. It is, it's, it's, it's the best. And it's the best thing I've ever done with my life. I've made mistakes. I've done this and that. I've have some pretty cool memories, made some, met some amazing [00:30:00] people, done several things that many people will never do in their life. But hands down, being a dad is my favorite.

It's, it's the best. 

Carter: It really is. Yeah. Yeah. My kids have pulled me out of those dark times as well. And my wife I mean, you've probably heard me say it on previous episodes that they literally saved my life as well. So I definitely connect with you on that. So after that incident, was that like the end of your marriage from there?

Daniel: Unfortunately, it lasted another 10 years 

Carter: of Another 10 years? A lot of Did it get better or did you just 

Daniel: it delved into just you just focused on being a verbal abuse and just vile this towards each other. Sadly, sometimes in front of the kids. So, yeah, being a dad, getting the kids out of the house, you know, doing doing anything to try and make a happier environment for myself and for them was was the focus for most of that.

Around the end of the last year or so of that [00:31:00] first marriage, I began trying to do stand up comedy and very quickly fell into getting to open for well known comedians and, you know, performing in front of large crowds within my first year. And part of that also came with a lot of drug use from everybody else that was in it, mostly the promoter.

And So I fell into that. I had never done anything other than smoked marijuana and drank alcohol. And so I tried cocaine for the first time when I was 27 or 28 and so began in almost two year, just deep, dark addiction. I very quickly started what's called freebasing it, which is where you put it on tinfoil, mix it with a little baking soda and then burn it and suck it up with a straw.

I don't know if you've seen people, it's essentially smoking crack. And I would just do that in all my free time. If the kids weren't awake or they're at [00:32:00] school, I was getting messed up. And I began to use that as a way to balance out using other drugs, taking pills, mostly an anxiety medications because I could feel what I assume is normal, quote unquote, and just self medicated heavily more and more and more.

I had three times where I had to check myself into the hospital cause I thought that I was going to die. And. Yeah, you get a lot of very interesting paperwork and comments and looks after you've done that a few times and they're like, why are you in here again? I drank too many energy drinks.

Yeah, sure you did. We're going to do a blood run. Oh, 

kids: dang it. 

Daniel: So it, it wasn't going anywhere. It was a dead end street. I, I knew it was, it was, it was getting worse. But I had fun. I wish I hadn't been doing it because I had been able to remember a lot more of those really amazing times. Just as random, but it used to be before I kind of edited my social media that if you googled my name, picture of me and Tommy Chong of Cheech and [00:33:00] Chong smoking marijuana together came up.

And I was so proud of that. I was like, yeah. 

Carter: That's pretty cool. Look, if you didn't have such an unhealthy addiction going on, that's pretty cool. 

Daniel: Oh my God, it was him and his wife are amazing human beings. I actually did a tour of New Mexico with both of them, just warm, loving, and he was still fighting cancer at the time too.

Yeah, it was amazing. A lot of good memories. Also, you haven't lived until you've gone through a checkpoint in El Paso. Like, with dogs and machine guns and when they see nothing but marijuana merchandise and Tommy Chong in the vehicle. It was fun. There was a lot of good memories, but There's beautiful human beings out there.

I got to meet a childhood hero of mine was Louis Anderson. Cause he was a fat kid with buck teeth and he had a show called Life with Louis that I loved. And I grew up and got to do a show with the guy who was a grownup man. It was a fat guy with buck teeth. And I was like, Hey, we're still alike. It was [00:34:00] beautiful.

He ended up passing a few years back. So I was really glad I, I got to meet him, but it was fun. I definitely did a lot of good things, but. It all came to an end. I decided to leave my first wife when I met my, what would be my second wife. 

Carter: Yep, we will get into that in two seconds. I'll just deal with this one real quick.

What's up? What do you need? You hungry? Alright, can you go get mum and say you're hungry? I think she's out in the shed maybe? Alright. Yes. Okay. So you've, you've left your first wife or did you meet your second wife first? 

Daniel: Sadly, 

Carter: there was overlap. 

Daniel: At the end 

Carter: we were both cheating on each other and I'm not judging you at all.

No one's going to judge you. These things in life happen. And when you've been in that toxic environment with the relationship for so long, I don't think anyone can blame you. No, 

Daniel: I, and I'll, I'll always, I mean, it's maybe something to admit this on a public podcast, but. I had never been in love until I met [00:35:00] my youngest daughter's mother, my second wife.

I, I didn't know what any of the goofy love songs and all that, where, you know, all the stereotypical stuff I'd never felt. I was almost 30 years old. Yeah. So when I met this person, I just, it was a struggle because I felt like I was abandoning. My son and my older daughter. But I knew that it was unhappy.

It was toxic for them. It was toxic for me. And that any positive change was a good direction to go. So I ended up moving out and, and moved in with her. And I'm not too long after my daughter was conceived and we got the news and I, she had unfortunately fallen into some of my bad habits during this time.

And we both decided, and this was before we found out she was pregnant, thankfully to just quit cold turkey. And we both quit. I should say I quit what I quit. She quit what she quit. I personally quit pills, cocaine. I was taking everything I was doing MDMA or [00:36:00] Molly. I would get giant crystals off the dark web of like half ounces of Molly and just either snort it or eat it or smoke it.

Just stupid stuff. And like I said, I'd been in and out of the ER and we just both realized that we gotta do something. And we, thankfully we, we both quit. We stuck to, I don't know how one of the things that's kept me sober. Is how awful that year was as much as I loved, you know, her being pregnant and, you know, and then my daughter being born, which was towards the end of that, that year or yeah, it was after a year of being sober.

It, it took almost a year just to be able to sit down and watch a 30 minute television show. Like it messed up my brain so badly to where I couldn't focus on anything. I couldn't enjoy things like that pleasure center of my brain. It's been so overworked that it took almost a year to feel like myself again.

And that was so, I never want to go through that again. And. 

Carter: Coming out of that addiction, especially going cold turkey I [00:37:00] mean, I'll, I'll share a part of myself that I haven't shared on the podcast before is that I am an ex addict as well. In my early twenties, I was very, very much into amphetamines, any sort of uppers that I could get my hands on.

And it got to a point where, yeah, I, I was dating someone at the time we were living together in a share house and I said, it was a Wednesday afternoon I said, I'm just going to a friend's house. I'll be back later tonight. I'll be home before dinner. And I rolled in the house three days later and 10 kilograms lighter no sleep, no nothing.

I think I just kicked back on his couch and and just smoked speed with him and a couple of other mates for three straight days. Didn't sleep. Didn't eat. Didn't do anything but. Hard drugs, and she just looked me dead in the eye, and and said if, if this ever happens again I'm gone. And then, after sleeping for 36 hours, I, I woke up and never touched it really again.

That's amazing. Went cold turkey as well. And that cold turkey And, and like the [00:38:00] months after is just one big come down. 

Daniel: Yeah. 

Carter: And it's, it's really hard. And every waking moment, you're pretty much just thinking about like, What excuse can I come up with to do it again? What, like, what can I tell myself to make it okay?

And it's such just an internal battle. And it's really, really hard. So for someone to go cold turkey, or someone to quit. Any type of addiction is just so commendable and it takes just such an amazing amount of courage and strength and perseverance to get through that. It's really, really hard. So well 

Daniel: done.

Same to you. Same to you. It's definitely a challenge. And it, you know, like I said, it takes a long time for your brain to recover. And I feel like that was the hardest is you, it will not stop saying, Hey, you've been putting this into me. Where did it go? Why isn't it here? Let's do this again. Like you said, just every waking hour for.

weeks, months, and learning to deal with that though. The worst for me is a lot of people I feel like are as open with their [00:39:00] recovery, and so you don't know that it's very common for it to be kind of like a rollercoaster, you feel like, oh, I finally through the worst of it, I'm doing better now, and then everything just goes to shit again.

And you're like, why am I craving again, why am I, what's going on? Why am I depressed again? And, and it takes a little bit of those up and down cycles until it just kind of evens out again. And and yeah it's it's yeah something what one thing it's to be said I think it's pretty true I'm sorry oh no I was just gonna say one thing to be said though is especially anybody listening that that might be going through a similar thing or questioning it is almost everybody I knew back then is dead or in prison.

One of my closest friends and the guy that I bought the cocaine from overdosed and left behind five kids. And there's just so many tragic stories. It doesn't go anywhere. It doesn't. You either end up in a grave or in a cell. And neither one is good for you or your family. And it's definitely ending up in [00:40:00] jail and cold turkeying.

Is a whole other type of hell, which is a whole other story. 

Carter: Yeah, no, it's, it's very true. The story I just told, the three people that I was with, the three mates one went to jail for firearms charges because he ended up becoming like a pretty hectic drug dealer. His house got raided. They found like a whole heap of like semi automatic weapons under his mattress and like a full grow house in his room.

And then the other two are dead. One of them drank himself to death. And the other one hung himself several years ago. He was one of my best friends. I'm so sorry to hear that. He never, he never got through his addiction. His addiction worsened and he ended up on heroin. Oh my god. Which is quite a lot of the time the final stop, isn't it?

It's the final destination of, of addiction. 

Daniel: Yeah, 

Carter: there's, 

Daniel: there's 

Carter: that 

Daniel: one 

Carter: and a 

Daniel: few others. So, 

Carter: yeah, anyone, anyone that can get out of those, those holes is it's, it's, it's Pretty pretty incredible. Absolutely. And it's sad stuff. It's, it's very sad stuff. And I think there's, there's not enough empathy towards [00:41:00] people fighting addiction.

No, not 

Daniel: at all. It's I actually ended up being certified and leading a group it's called smart recovery, which is a science based CBT. Recovery group. It's not religious based. So you can talk about a higher power. You can talk about not believing it. It's whatever you need, whoever you are, whatever you identify as that is who you are.

That is who we accept. And that paid off so much. I believe helping other people. And kind of being a source of, I don't want to say inspiration, but you know, Hey, I've been there too, is a lot different than you'll be. Okay. Yeah. So I, I think it, it's definitely good if you have the opportunity or the time to do something like that, if you've been through something like this I, that, that gave me a lot of healing.

Carter: Yeah, certainly. So. We'll, we'll kind of come to current days, your current life. Have you still married to your second wife? 

Daniel: No. [00:42:00] Sadly, a little bit after my daughter was born, we relocated up here to Colorado and separated within a few months. And I went back to Texas with my daughter who was still a baby and would come up and visit every so often as much as I could, at least a couple of times a month and just do that drive back and forth.

And it just, it, it, it needed to end. She's still one of my best friends. My daughter's mother and I still talk every, I mean, we text every day. She still lives in the same town I live in. And I actually, I, I went back to Texas and single dad for a little bit until, I had an issue with some family and got in trouble for possession of marijuana in Texas, which is the same charge, the charge that I was given, is a first degree felony, which is the same thing as manslaughter.

It was a 5 to 95 year prison sentence. It cost almost 30, 000, [00:43:00] well 10 percent of that, to bail out of jail, which I spent almost 3 months in. And So I got out and this is something she's apologized for. So I don't say this negatively, but my ex and her family filed paperwork to try and terminate my parental rights with my youngest daughter.

And so I was fighting this criminal case for my freedom and I was fighting. The civil case for my daughter and I couldn't afford a lawyer for both. So I, the civil case, the one that I was worried, I gotta be free to be able to fight for my daughter. So I hired the attorney for that one that was the most threatening I felt like and then spent months and months in the courthouse law library, researching and taking notes.

And ended up representing myself in the trial to terminate my parental rights. And I won and kept my parental rights. And I am to this day, very, very proud of that. I know it's kind of silly to be proud of [00:44:00] yourself about things, but I also feel like we should celebrate these moments and that. It really, it took a lot out of me going through both of those things at the same time and to make it out on the other end and then to spend what ended up being years saving money, doing community service hours and paying fines, taking classes until the state of Texas would allow me.

To move back up here and to be with my daughter on a regular basis. Again, not just visiting a few times a year. And that was bliss. That was in 2021. And we spent about a year. It was a beautiful rental house. We found everything was going great. And then towards the end of 2021, I'm sorry, 2022 last year, I got a notification from the landlord that he was selling the house and that it was no longer for rent and I had 30 days to get out.

So I found what was a basement being converted into a two bedroom apartment with its own separate entrance and everything and I was like, this is, this is good enough. They were finishing, you know, building everything. So it was exposed wiring and you know, [00:45:00] like cockroaches and spiders. And they're like, yep, we're getting this built up and done.

You know, here's the work we're doing. Here's all the stuff we're putting in. It's going to be this much to hold it. So it was first month's rent and a deposit signed a contract and everything. And then I went to move in at the end of that month and nothing was done. It was still bare bones. It was still giant spiders and cockroaches everywhere.

And they're like, yeah, we didn't get to it. I want my money back, and they're like, no. So, I ended up having to borrow money to move into a place in two days notice. Which ended up being this crappy 40 year old trailer in a trailer park. Which, no judgment, it's just, there's nice ones and there's not nice ones.

And unfortunately this wasn't a very nice one. But it was a place, it was a roof. And it, it got us. And it unfortunately is where I still am. Which was part of my breakdown this last week was I very much hate being where I'm at. It's not good for my mental health, but every local [00:46:00] Housing authority has a one to two year waiting list.

I can't afford a lot of the rentals that are here. I'm still dealing with finishing up probation. So I don't qualify for a lot of apartments when they run a background check. So it's really challenging. I went out of town for a day to see a concert and I got back last week and just broke down.

And I think that's when I couldn't sleep. I started having anxiety attacks. I got very, very depressive. I actually ended up calling a local crisis line. And I wasn't at the point of being where I felt like coming up with a plan to But I felt like I was at the step right before that. And that's, that's what I told him.

I said, yeah, I don't need people to come. I don't want to be taken somewhere. If it gets worse, I will voluntarily walk there. I'll walk in and sign myself in, but I just needed to talk. And they were the ones who ended up giving the resources to see a therapist and find this group therapy and ended up really helping.

But it, it was, it's, yeah, but 

Carter: you haven't had an [00:47:00] easy life. Have you made? No. 

Daniel: That's what I was going to say. Circling back. The reason I got stuck here is I moved in that first month and within 30 days the vehicle I had, my only form of transportation almost caught fire on the side of the road.

Just plumes of black smoke. Like you see in movies when a car breaks down and the engine was shot. So I didn't have a way to help transport my daughter. School that created a lot of friction. So I was stuck in this place. I don't want to be. And a lot of people were being frustrated by my inability to help out, which I fully understand.

And at the end of September of last year, My father died very, very unexpectedly. I mean, he was 74, so he was getting up there, but I wasn't expecting it to happen. And the next day after finding out, I got a call from my father, former father in law who I believe was chosen to speak for the family. And he said, we need to move my youngest [00:48:00] daughter.

And we're going to do it in a month. So I lost my father and I lost honestly, my little best friend. And I, I, I tried to, the first thing I did when I found out my, when I got the phone call and my dad died I excused myself, my daughter and I were cuddling in bed watching cartoons, as we often do, and I jumped up and said I gotta go outside real quick, I'll be right back, and just started googling how do you talk to a 7 year old about loss, I mean cause he was in her life so much, he was there when she took her first steps and found out very quickly that just be you, just feel the feelings, if it gets really heavy, maybe excuse yourself, but just be honest and open, And I realized I was like, Oh my God, I don't think either of my parents were like this.

I remember my grandparents dying and no one said a word. No one talked about it. No one asked if I was okay. Let alone talked about themselves. So I came in and told her I had some sad news and, and we just talked about it openly whenever it came up. And you know, sometimes I'd tear up and get sad. What's [00:49:00] wrong?

Are you okay, dad? And I'm like, yeah, I'm just missing Papa a little bit. I'll be all right in a few minutes. And just try to kind of be open. Because one of the things I read in this, this, Resonated so much is that I am teaching her how to mourn when this happens to her. She's going to remember this moment and how I reacted and how I mourned and how I, because that was the first thing I thought of was how my dad reacted when his mother died.

The parent he was closest with, which my dad was my closest parent. So I wanted to be a good inspiration and, and, and not inspiration, but I wanted to try and show her that it's okay to have these feelings and that there's no right or wrong way necessarily. 

Carter: Yes, so we 

Daniel: got through that. 

Carter: I think it's incredibly important for kids to see their parents show their emotions.

Oh, absolutely. A very, very common theme on this podcast is, you know, they're little sponges. And if they can, they, if they sense you hiding emotions, that becomes a point of shame for them growing up. They think that they have to hide those emotions and that [00:50:00] becomes. Unhealthy. So, you know, my kids get to see every emotion from, from me, and if I'm angry, I tell them I'm angry, if I'm sad, I tell them I'm sad, and I tell them why, and sometimes I'll tell them that I just don't know, sometimes that I, sometimes Dad just feels things for a reason that he doesn't understand, and that's totally okay, but the important thing is to show those emotions, and I think that's And allow them to feel with you.

Daniel: No, I completely agree. I think it's important. It's hard to be vulnerable and open. But I think it's incredibly important. For the people around us. Because there's so many people, I feel like, suffering in silence. That feel like they're alone in what they're going through. And just a few words can make all the difference.

For sure. 

Carter: Definitely. It's yeah, I wish I could reach through the screen and give you a big warm cuddle, mate. It's been a rough journey for you. I would, I 

Daniel: would 

Carter: gladly 

Daniel: accept. I can't remember the last time I had a hug.

I'm such a hugger. Oh man, I love, I love a good hug. No, I'm the same way. I, if, if someone's willing, [00:51:00] I'm all about a good hug. 

Carter: Yep, I to this day I'll always give my best mates a big cuddle when I see them and tell them I love them. See, I love that. All that shit's very important. You know, I, I 

Daniel: think 

Carter: It's all, it's all important, you know.

Sometimes people just need to hear that they, they're loved by their best mate, you know. It is, 

Daniel: it never hurts to tell someone that they're loved, they're valued, they matter. Yep, 

Carter: I appreciate you, yep. All of that. That's beautiful, man. So before we wrap up, is there anything that you would like to send out into the world?

Any messages, any advice, any strategies, any coping mechanisms or just, just anything you want. Goodness. 

Daniel: Floor is yours. Oh, wow. Well definitely being open and honest, I think is, like I said, being open with your vulnerability is, is important. And as much as, and it's not just men as much as individuals feel like they have to live up to expectations or, or be a certain way.

To be successful, to be valued [00:52:00] by their peers or older generations, in laws, whoever it may be. That you don't have to be anything other than yourself for anybody, and if it's not good enough, that's on them, it's not on you. I've run myself, stretched myself thin, and made so many things worse with my mental health trying to be Trying to do things that I I can't sustain myself.

I I can't work a certain type of job for X many hours I remember you said once that you worked 12 hours. I'm like, oh my god, I would break down in a week I don't know how people do that, but I've tried 

Carter: I still work 

Daniel: 12 hours. Yeah, that's a commendable man for sure But I, and I, I would, I would, 

Carter: it's night shift though.

So I work while my kids are asleep and I get to spend days. We see that's perfect. So while I miss out on sleeping hours, it's worth it to me. See, 

Daniel: that's beautiful. And I, I think that's, that's another thing to, to remember too, is that there's going to be plenty of time to do your own thing and to go do adult activities.

And it's important to do them and take [00:53:00] breaks for sure. As a parent, but. Soak up as much of it as you can while you can because it they get to that age where they just kind of don't Care about being around you. It seems so quickly and Those that first I'd say eight to ten years is just so special So yeah If you have any way to work around it or do anything to where you can spend more of those hours like you're doing that's That's the way to go.

Carter: Yep Yeah, 100%. They when you're in the thick of it, and they're doing your head in, it's hard to step out of it and, and understand that it is incredibly special. But yeah, even on the hard days, I appreciate the things that I'm able to do with them. 

Daniel: Oh, yeah. 

Carter: And I'm glad that you were able to do those things too.

Daniel: Yeah, I'm Hopefully by the end of the year, I'll be able to save up and not only get out of this place, but going to try to move back to Texas and live in the same city as my daughter again. The good thing about that is she's a few hours away from my older daughter, so I'll be close to both of them within driving distance of my mother.

So I'm, it's in the distance, but I'm just trying to remain patient and [00:54:00] positive. There's the ups and the downs, but as long as you hold on, you'll get there. That's where I'm at. 

Carter: That's it. You'll get there, mate. And the fact that you're taking those positive steps with self care and the therapies at the moment is really great.

Daniel: Absolutely. Never be ashamed to ask for help. Never be ashamed to say you're not okay. I know it's, it seems hokey or cheesy to say, but it really is. It's, it's so important. If you're just feeling something, talk to somebody, reach out, call a line to speak with someone, anything that you can do to get yourself feeling even a modicum of relief is worth doing and just keep doing that every day.

And you'll get to that point that you're Wanting to be just the same thing as quitting being sober. It's just a day at a time those days add up and eventually what's 

Carter: the saying it's a problem shared is a problem halved. Oh, I like that. Heck. Yeah. 

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. Get you a good support. I'm pretty 

Carter: sure that's the saying that's it.

And, you know what, mate, if you find anything exhausted, any resources exhausted, I'm [00:55:00] always here, so you can always message me. We're, we're mates now. I appreciate it. I'm going to take you up on that at some point too. No worries. Alright, well, I think it's time for my kids to have their lunch, so we'll we'll wrap up there, mate.

Sounds good. Thank you so much for sharing your Your long and sordid history and, and and being, allowing yourself to be vulnerable. I really appreciate it. Sorry. I didn't realize it was 

Daniel: that long. My goodness. 

Carter: No, that's okay, mate. Look, it's with these conversations, you lose track of time and I could honestly talk about it for the entire day.

Oh, same, same. Especially 

Daniel: when I'm around another person, like I said. That is within the spectrum. It's like an instant connection. I feel like so. I appreciate it. But yeah, you're more than welcome. Much love to, to the family and everybody for being patient and giving, giving us time to have this conversation.

I appreciate it. 

Carter: No worries, mate. Well, you have a great day. And yeah, thank you again. 

Daniel: Absolutely. You too. Bye. It was nice meeting you. All 

Carter: the best. Bye. 

Daniel: You too.