Between the Monsters and the Weak: Les' Journey to Resilience and Healing

Welcome to another powerful episode of The Touched Out podcast. I'm your host, Carter, and today we have an inspiring guest, Les, who will bravely share her journey through narcissistic abuse and postpartum depression/psychosis.


Les, a remarkable individual from Spokane, Washington, has experienced immense challenges throughout her life. Placed into foster care at the age of 5 due to her mother's abandonment, she had to endure unspeakable trauma.


Les shares how her mother involved her in various "cons" to make money and was tragically exploited from a young age. Raised by her abusive grandfather and resentful step-grandmother, she faced a constant battle to be believed about the abuse she endured.


At 18, Les found herself homeless, addicted to drugs, and caught up in a gang. She bravely left that life, despite the risks. Les opens up about her motherhood journey, driven by a need to be "perfect" due to the shame and trauma she carried from her past.


Struggling with the pressure, she was diagnosed with Post Partum Psychosis, further challenging her path to healing. Les bravely shares her attempts to take her own life, demonstrating the depths of despair she faced.


She highlights the turning point when her daughter fell ill, motivating her to reclaim her life and care for her children. Les shares her journey of healing, meeting her supportive current husband, embracing neuroplasticity, and discovering her purpose in helping others.


Les discusses how her experiences have shaped her approach to parenting, emphasizing the importance of empathy and avoiding reliance on raising one's voice. Les is currently writing a book that documents her entire life, aiming to inspire and uplift those facing similar challenges.


We leave you with two powerful quotes: "It can either make you or break you, it's your choice" and "And maybe just remind the few, if ill of us they speak, that we are all that stands between the monsters and the weak." - Michael Marks


If Les' story has touched you, please share this episode to spread the message of resilience and hope as well as following Les on TikTok – https://www.tiktok.com/@thelesfactor

Head to the podcast Instagram and hit the bio link to sign up for preorder today.

Transcript

We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of this land. We pay our respects to the elders, past, present and emerging, but they hold the memories, the traditions and the culture of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people across the nation.

Carter

Warning this podcast contains explicit language and discusses sensitive topics related to mental health, childhood trauma, birth, trauma, abuse, miscarriage, and suicide. Listener discretion is advised. If you find these subjects distressing or triggering, we recommend taking caution and considering whether to proceed with. Listening. If you or someone you know is struggling, please reach out to a mental health professional or a trusted individual for support. Your well being is our priority. Welcome to the Season 2 premiere of the Touched Out Podcast. I'm your host Carter, and today we have an inspiring guest Les, who bravely shares her incredibly tough life journey. Les, a remarkable individual from Spokane, WA, has experienced immense challenges through her life due to her mother's abandonment at the age of five, Les has endured the foster care system. Abusive home life with their grandparents, drug addiction, homelessness, gang affiliation, A slew of abusive relationships, several miscarriage. And several non fatal suicide attempts. Les's story is nothing short of impactful and traumatic, but from the cracks in the cement rose of flower, a symbol of hope, resilience, healing and discovery. For Les buckle up as we dive into les's intense life journey and learn how she came out on the other side. A loving, caring and devoted wife and mother of three. You can also follow Les and hear more of her journey on TikTok www.www.tiktok.com slash at the les Factor. I hope you enjoy today's episode. Hit like and share on the podcast platform of your choice so the podcast can continue to find its way into the ears of new listeners. You can also find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and YouTube at Touched Out Podcast for those who wish to support the show in other ways, you can also donate via PayPal. You can find social media and donation links as well as information from today's episode. In the episode description, thank you for being part of my podcast family. Let's keep this journey.

Les

No. Then so. These things right here take some time. It's alright. You'll be fine. Forecast. You will be fine. It's all right.

Carter

OK, so today we've got Les. Les is 34 from Spokane, WA. She's got 4 kids, a 12 year old, an 11 year old and nine year old and a 7 year old. Thank you very much for joining me. How? Are you today? Good. How are you? I'm well, thank you. It's been hard trying to get all of this. Set up. I feel really, really. Unprofessional when it comes to our our podcast together, cause I've had to cancel on you like three times due to various illnesses within the family and whatnot, so I do apologise and. I thank you. For bearing with me and coming on today.

Les

Yeah, of course. And no worries, I mean, I was. Sick too, you. Know my passion.

Carter

It happens. It does happen. So you reached out to me with quite a story. It's probably the most intense story that I've personally read, let alone had on the podcast. So I'm. Quite excited to get into it and hear about your life and your journey. And yeah, how about we start from the very beginning for you?

Les

OK. Well, the beginning would be childhood, I suppose. So I was in and out of foster care for six years, in and out being I if I wasn't in foster care, I was with my biological mother. And if I wasn't with my biological mother, I was in foster care. There's a lot of that happens. I think more than people realise that back and forth constantly. And she did me a huge favour. When I was 5. And left me on a doorstep never came back. Basically, I was coming home from kindergarten and we were going to go to the library. So this is the 90s and yes, they let 5 year olds walk, walks home from the bus stop. It's different now, but then so I just walked home, was about a block and 1/2 from the bus stop and the lights were on. Music was playing. Nobody was home. I just assumed she'd come. And she didn't. Turns out she was halfway to Arizona in a stolen vehicle, but that was the last time I was taken from her. And the last time I would see her until. I was like. 8 years old and then some foster homes were good. Some foster homes were bad and so my maternal grandfather and my step grandmother drove from California to Oklahoma, where I. Was picked me up, brought me back to California. So I lived there for 10 years in the Central Valley area. Grandfather was a raging alcoholic. He was 20 years. My step grandmother senior. So there was a huge split difference. And she I don't even know the best description for that woman. I don't think she was ready. For the kind of child that she took in, it was pretty. It was pretty messed up. Yeah, I was. I mean, I was sexually abused, you know, she traded me. For favours and things, stuff like that. I I you know, we were homeless. You teach me how to. Like I say it like this because of movies. But like, run a con, you know, like we're sitting on the corner and the cars coming, you know, she'd pinch me and she'd tell me cry. So then I start crying and then, you know, people would give her money because oh, look at my poor kid on the side of the road. But I was. You know. She was hurting so I would cry. But you know, it worked and we made money and then we just go on our way. And I don't think they were ready for that kind of child. I said that kind of because the whole time in my story, I've seen myself as the problem in the monster. So like, if I entered into your life, your life would be destroyed. That's just how I always saw it. So you know, I was just like a little demon. I lied a lot to them about stupid stuff, but now that I'm older and I raise my own kids. And like kids lie like. That's just what they do. It you know, it wasn't. It was something. That I thought. Or at least, was convinced to believe you know only I did. And this entire world. Did I ever make a mistake or, you know nobody else? It was hard cause Grandfather was a alcoholic and he was. Abusive as well, and step grandmother became a police officer, so she was never home. So gosh, there's just a lot of neglect if you know. If I said something happen. It didn't. I made it up. It was a lie. Social worker came. I told her that I was being physically abused by my grandparents and the social worker said, taking me from the home. She went straight to my grandparents and was like, are you abusing her? And there? Of course. We're like, no, like she. Lies like why blah blah. Blah blah blah and then. She left. That was that was a. Really long day for me so. Right off the rip. I didn't really have an opportunity. I think to heal from the first five years of my life, let alone, you know, up until I was about, I was 18 and we had moved up to North Idaho when I was 16. And so I went from a school 4000 to. A school of. 150 something like that. Like the whole school was 154 thousand was like the whole school too. So it was this big massive. Culture shock for me. And then of course, you know the abuse that I was experiencing at home, I started to get bullied in school because I was the new kid and I was from California and everybody in North Idaho. Nobody wants anybody from California and, you know, all the stuff that was going not school was an escape for me. My whole life. Like, I loved school. But I also loved school because school kept. Me safe, because if I was at school. That was fine. It would be the going home part that sucked, which, like COVID, made me really worry, you know, for those kids, like, whenever they had to stay in their homes and and stuff like that, I was. My heart was really going out to the children that were like me that. We're better off away from home than they were inside the home and I couldn't imagine having to be stuck, you know? So basically they told me I wasn't going.

Carter

Yeah, definitely.

Les

To graduate, they treated. Me, like my biological mother, like as if I was her. And they never, like, looked at less as a complete separate entity, you know? So like, they're disdain for her came out. Because I look like her, I sound like her. I act like her, you know? So it it was doomed from the beginning. But they told me I wouldn't be able to graduate high school. And so I did just to prove them wrong. And then.

Carter

Spikes a hell of a thing, isn't it?

Les

Yeah. Give him the double bird and dipped out. I was like bye. I did what I came to do and now I don't ever have to see you again.

Carter

So you will wish your grandparents until 18 is that. Right. Yeah, 12. OK. Well. I mean you, your entire childhood and teenage life, sounds like you were just in survival mode the entire time. I can't even begin to imagine how horrific. That must have been for you. So your mum leaving in a stolen car and just leaving you on the front porch. Are these things? Were these things happening because of addiction or? Or was she just? Generally not a caring parent or person.

Les

So I've thought, I think I've thought about this a lot. Obviously the way I see it is she did not. She she kind of started off life with the same way I did in a way of just having a really raw hand dealt. My biological grandmother is actually a lot like my biological mother. And then of course, my grandfather, having been raised by the same set of parents, she was raised by, including. My stepmother that she was part of that raising. I can see why she just kept walking to the edge. And justice, you know, going downhill really crappy support system. You know, like nothing you say matters if you're trying to set a boundary, don't. It's not gonna. It's not going to. Happen like you're. When you're child, specifically in that family 100%, you're pathetic. You know, like you're useless. Until you can be useful. And she didn't have. She didn't have good nurture growing up. She didn't. You know, she didn't have a good support system. Then she met my sister, my biological sister's dad. I think they were. Married. I'm not entirely sure if she ever actually married him, but he they had a daughter and a son. Together. And so my brother Justin, he's the only name I'll drop. My brother Justin. He passed away when he was four months. Old so she was 1920 when she lost her baby to SIDS and I think. There was a lot of. Postpartum just trauma in general. You know from her childhood, she claimed that my grandfather raped her when she was younger. I believe it. That's all I'll say. And you know, so like, she took to drugs. She took to sex, she took to alcoholic. When people go through these damaging. Experiences. You know you only do the only thing that's comfortable to you is. Other damaging things, other things that are bad for you, having something that's good for you is almost foreign, you know. So I think a lot of that. I think my birth was 100%. I believe the only reason why she had me is because I think she needed to fulfil that that whole. That Justin left and she was 21 when she had me, so she was just a kid. Like to me, 21 is young, you know? And so she didn't have a good support system, didn't have good coping mechanisms. Didn't even really see. She didn't see the value that she could just break that chain, you know, break that mould. Like she just didn't have the internal strength to to break herself out of it. Cause I don't think she believed. That she like, not that she couldn't. But I don't think she believed that she could. Even deserve it.

Carter

Yeah. So it's very much like. A hurt people hurt people kind of scenario.

Les

Right. And that's one thing too. I never had any anger towards any of my abusers. Because the only thing that ever came to my head was, like, what happened to you?

Carter

To make you this way.

Les

Yeah, I was always like the curious things, like what happened to you to make you like that.

Carter

Yeah. So even from a young age, you felt that way. You felt like that this was more about them than it was about you.

Les

Yeah, it was. You know, it's kind of more like that famous saying now is. Who hurt you? And they didn't really have the effect on me that I think people would expect it to so. But then again also with with my grandparents, you. Know all the stuff. That I would talk about that. I did go. Through they would tell me that it didn't so. They really brainwashed me when in that 12 years I was with them because they made me believe, like all the things that I remember happening didn't happen and they would do that. They continue to do that. Now, I don't have correspondence with them, but they are in correspondence with my ex husband. So I get to hear.

Speaker

OK.

Les

All those things through my kids.

Carter

Yeah, right. So you said that when you, so your mother essentially abandoned you. I don't know if you would like for me to use that. Word or not?

Les

Ohh that's fine.

Carter

OK, so your mother abandoned you when you were five and you said you didn't see her again? Until you were. 8 so is that the last time you've seen her, or is she someone that's a part of your life in any way, shape or form now or?

Les

That's the last time I saw her physically in person, and it was a supervised visitation with CPS. Other than that, I have not seen her in person. We have had conversations, if you can call them that. Throughout the years, she still hates me and you know, a lot of everything she's done is my. Fault. But to be honest, as an adult and as a mother, I don't believe that she actually thinks that. But I do believe that it makes her feel better to say that it's better to make it my fault than it is for her to make. It her fault because. Then she would have to actually admit all the things that she's done.

Carter

Yeah, and admitting fault to to leaving your kid on a doorstep is that that would be a hard one to admit.

Les

Yeah, and I get it, I actually. Get it? Because. I I went through so we'll just jump ahead a little bit, SO18I was. Homeless. And then I was in a gang. I was doing drugs, doing all kinds of bad things. I got jumped out of the of the gang. So that's like a 2 1/2 minute beating for those who don't know what being jumped out means. And I was coming down off of like which I was withdrawing. I had decided I didn't want that life. I got dumped by a friend after the beating at a gas station near dumpster, so I was hanging out there with my dog. And all I wanted to do was go home and then this family took me in and there's. More on that. But that's totally different story. Let me tell you, but just know they took me in. They're great. And they're my family now. I have. So I have a mom, dad, all that. But when I got married to my husband, he took me from them. From that family, like telling me like, oh, they're not your real family. You know they're not. They're cold. Like your grandparents were the ones we should go back to, blah, blah, blah. So we do. Good. And now I'm divorced, bringing my grandparents in was the worst thing possible. I started 2, so I had 6 pregnancies in three years. But I had three live births and a lot of repressed trauma. Like I would talk. Like, I talk about being left on a doorstep like we were talking about. One time I went to get ice cream with my dad. You know. Like those two stories are like the exact. Same thing reminiscent to me, so and it throws people off sometimes. How casually I can just talk. About, you know my trauma cause it wasn't until I. Was an adult that I realised that. I had trauma. Because everybody you know, you're in a friend group, you're going bowling, and everybody's chitchatting and talk about childhood memories. And then I pop up and I'm like, oh, yeah, I have a childhood memory and. I bring in. They're like, whoa, that's.

Carter

A bit of a trauma trauma dump.

Les

Yeah, they're like, wait. A minute and I'm like what? You know, like genuinely I.

Carter

You thought that was just a normal experience?

Les

Yeah, I thought everybody experienced. All the things that I experienced, so I never really actually realised that I had experienced any sort of trauma until I had my children. Because there's a lot of guilt. That I was getting cause I was. Trying I was actively trying the hardest I could. To not be. The mother that I had. Or the parents I had growing up. And so I was, like, trying to be. Like perfect, it's like and hard. I was really going. I was going too hard. I was trying way too hard. And so you have your typical, your normal parent guilt. But then on top of that for me. I had the. The the fear of being my mother. Because that's how I. Was told I was going to be like growing up like you're. Just going to be like I said, her name.

Carter

I can bleep it. Out it's fine.

Les

Thank you. She you know, they're like you're gonna be like her and. I believed that so. So, you know, toddlers, I'm just going to use this example. I would get really upset with my oldest and like, if I raised my voice or clinched my fist like I grew up in a very violent. World so like. That's kind of your first reaction, but even if I like, clenched my fist, even though I didn't pull back like I was going to hit him, I didn't hit him. I never hit my kids, but like just clenching my fist because I was angry would bring me so much shame and guilt that I would put them down for a nap and then I would tear myself to pieces. You know, like and so that the multiple pregnancies, the hormones, the suppressed trauma, everything, all just kind of caved in on me and I ended up with postpartum psychosis and I broke. I snapped. I didn't want to be a mom anymore. I didn't want to be married. I felt like my kids could find a better mom. You know, my husband can find a better life. I wasn't living up to the standards. I didn't look like all the moms on social media. I could. You know, I couldn't keep up. I wasn't doing a good job. So I went on vacation to try to reinvent my I don't know revamp, you know, just relax, recharge. And I went down to California to visit my grandfather. My mother's side of the family and. My step grandmother decided to spread some weird rumour that I was sleeping with my cousin and that is. A full truth. We went to Disneyland while while I was down there together. My cousin and I, he had just gotten back from Afghanistan. He was blown up by an IED, so none of us had seen him in like 2 years because he was stuck overseas getting. In a coma and you know. We went down to Disneyland and we were sharing a room 2 beds, but one room. We're family and. Yeah. So she convinced my ex that I was sleeping with my cousin. And I was already wanting a divorce at that point. So. And then, like, another family member told my grandmother and my ex husband that. And then I came home to nobody believing a word that I said, which was really strange for me and my my ex husband at the time, like we actually had a good relationship at. I thought until that started. I know it sounds really weird to say it, but it it it that's like the only story I could think of that could really show the toxicity in that woman. And once I realised I wasn't a good mom, I wasn't a good parent. I wasn't a good daughter. I wasn't a good cousin, you know, like I just **** I wasn't. Good at anything. So I tried to take my. Life I tried four times and the last time there was no way I should have been alive. But a friend of ours showed up at the house and found me on the bathroom floor, you know? So like that actually should have been the time I. Was gone, but it was after that lasted. That my husband and I my ex. Husband and I. Got to a. Fight when I got out. Of the hospital because basically, you know. He was just saying, like, you're not grateful for anything that you have, you know, like I was £280 at the time. So he was like, you know, like you just need to think better. Like, if you get healthy and lose weight, you'll be happier, you know.

Speaker

Like all the.

Les

Stereotypical mumbo jumbo that people give that. Either have never experienced mental. Or don't want to admit that they've ever experienced mental health like those are the two types of people who will give you those stupid cliche like.

Carter

Don't be sad.

Les

Yeah, you have so much in.

Speaker

Your life to be.

Les

Grateful for why are you unhappy? I don't know. That's the point. That's the point. I don't know. I understand everything you just said, but I still feel this way. So anyway I left. And then he wouldn't let me come back. And then he took the kid. I gave him custody of the kids because I honestly. Thought that I was that **** crazy. Which I kind. Of was psychosis. Postpartum psychosis can do some pretty crazy things to. People and a lot of people don't. Realise that that's a very real.

Carter

Not enough people know about postpartum psychosis. I've had another guest on who talked really, really earnestly about it and her experiences of like standing over her crying baby, thinking about how long she. I would have. To put a pillow over the baby's face just to make it sleep, not to kill it, but just to make it sleep. Because just like, yeah, it's, it's gnarly. It's what a harrowing story, mate.

Les

I'm sorry for somebody named Les Sum a lot.

Carter

And and the fact that you have a. Catch phrase for your own name. Really. Really. Kind of solidifies the **** that you've been through.

Les

That's funny. My other ones. You get more with less, but that's only if I'm a politician.

Carter

Well, I mean, first of all, I'm at a loss for words. The only thing I really can say is **** all of those people. Like what? ******* ********. And if you weren't in Washington, I'd give you big. Hug. Because I feel like that's all you really needed. Just a lot of a lot of hugs and a lot of, like, you're not a bad person. Just how do you even begin to heal? How do you begin to heal from that entire story? Because what you've just told me is that you've got an entire life worth of trauma every single day was was survival. You never knew what bad **** was going to happen. You always knew that no good. If it was going to happen, that's that's ******* tough. So the fact that you are here talking to me today is an absolute ******* hats off to you moment. Jesus Christ. Yeah. So can you run me through the turning point of your life and.

Les

Thank you.

Carter

Where the trauma began to be healed and how that looks.

Les

Uh, yes, perfect. But let me just add, there's just one more little gap error in my life that I have to add to. Before I get to the part where I. Please do so. Being away from my kids. He took them over to Montana, not having custody of them. I decided, and I was living in my car. I was like, why not just go get wasted every night? And so I did. That a lot. And I ended up getting pregnant. Again with my youngest and her dad turned out to be a drug addicted, abusive cheater. So I went through 18 months of that. I was pregnant with her for nine months and then when she was, I guess that was about 16 months because she was about four months old when. Him and I left and so. I got her and I out of that situation when she was young, infant. But then she started to become the doctors, called it terminally ill so the first year of her life, I had to worry about like him coming into the hospital room and, like, causing a scene if I didn't like give. Him sex.

Carter

At the hospital? Yeah, with our child.

Les

OK. Build in the hospital bed completely catatonic. It was nothing. It wasn't like, hey, how's she doing? It was like.

Carter

I'm. I'm here to have sex, right?

Les

So it wasn't even about her. And then, of course, you know, he was your typical, like, typical domestic violence. And I'm not trying to, like, make it sound like it's like, you know, your typical thing. It's just more of, you know, I don't need to go into details except for I would get beat. And then if I found out cheat on me was like 30. And I found out every single time back to when I said, you know, like you don't do things that are good for you when you're from a always bad environment. I just. I stayed more cause I didn't want to have one more child whose parents weren't intact. That was the actual reason I stayed for as long as I did. And then when I and then when we got out, like he'd show up at my apartment, you know, and like 1. Time he like he. Grabbed me by my neck and pushed me up against the wall so hard that the nail to. The calendar went into the stud. With from my back and like he took like all. My money that. I had for that month and at the time. The state wasn't. Like giving very good like I had $15.00 of groceries for the month and I had four small children. You know, every other weekend at that point. I got some custody back and so I tried to spend that for them, you know? So I actually lost. People were always shocked when they say I lost 140 pounds in a year. But what I cause, you know, you don't want to. Be a trauma. Dumper, but like the reason why was because I didn't have money for food and I made sure that my kids ate before I did. And a lot of. Times there wasn't any food left because you know, they're still hungry or this or that. And so I just like, I didn't eat. And then my daughter, she was.

Carter

I'll bleep it all out. Don't stress.

Les

Well, you'll not like this since you're from Australia, but her name is not that. It matters, but it is a cool name. She just discovered two days ago that there. Australia, so sorry you sorry. I just gave you a whole bunch. Of work to do there, that's OK. But anyway, it turns out she had celiac disease and gastroparesis, but we didn't know what that was, and I actually, so I was doing. I was a single mom. Four small kids, hardly any money. And I had a child that. Was in and out. Of the hospital. So I was losing. Jobs, like every couple months. And but she I was the only one that she had, so I had to. I had to get good. I stopped partying, you know, I I started like, really trying to hunker down. If I went to an employer, I'd be really, really honest about her health and all of that and my schedule and what I needed and everything. Thing, but I lost a lot of jobs. I lost a lot of sleep. Just. Trying to keep. My head above the water so that. Way I could. Hold my child's head up. If that makes. Sense like that's the only. Reason why I was trying to even like catch a breath and to keep going was.

Carter

You're just, you're just being the raft.

Les

Right. Yeah. So it was five years. Of that, after single mom. And that's when my healing starts to answer your question, my husband now. Right before right before him. I did like 2 years, 100% sober off of everything I didn't. I didn't like, drink. I didn't have sex with random people or anybody. I, you know, I just. I really focused on wanting my child to keeping her alive. And you know, they were telling me she's. Not going to make it past. Five. But she's. 8 Now she just. And with her two diagnosis, you know, they say 20 years. And I'm like, bet she's probably going to make it to 80, you know? So like all of that, on top of, like, recovering from postpartum and also just trying to get rid of the shame of not have not being a mother without her children. And it almost felt. Like a lie. Say that I was a Mama four when I wasn't actively involved in raw. Using three and as a matter of fact, anybody could say it like this, but I abandoned them. You know? I left, yeah, were my reasons poor. Sure, but it doesn't change the fact that I still left you. Know like so. It wasn't until my husband, now helping me stand up to my ex husband because he treats, treats me like the garbage that I am. And I say that loosely. I don't believe that now. And it was more so, my husband, because. He was like, like I would self. Destruct or self sabotage a situation. And then he would. Cruise through that situation. And then, like, do things like look him and go. Are you done now? Like, are we going to talk about what's actually going on or are you going to going? To keep doing that and I'm like what? Or, you know, he said, like, well, you know, I feel so bad that I upset him so bad and he'd go. It's fine, babe. Like, I love you. It happens. That's what, like, I was like, what? Like he's like, yeah, you know, like, if I get upset with him and I use, like a tone or raise my voice just a smidge cause I'm irritated. Like instantly I'd pull back and go. I'm so sorry. He's like right. But I was annoying you, you know? Like he's like you're setting a boundary.

Carter

And that's a trauma response.

Les

Yeah. And so he really kind of, we made, we joked about it for a couple of years because it was like he's not only a dad to my daughter, but he's a dad to me. He's like raising his wife because. I would spend days like because I wanted to be better. I wanted to be like a normal person. I wanted to feel normal, whatever that could look like. But I think really the true answer is it's it is normal. I did feel normal. Some people feel that way. You know, other people don't. Sometimes you go on like a roller coaster ride. With it. But you know, he helped me realise like that those dysfunctional things about ourselves like other people have those dysfunctional things we just, you know, mine might be. Like his might be like anger might be. Thing and you know mine is my thing was lying. I would still do it into my adulthood, and he helped. Me through that. Well, basically what he did was he gave me a self a safe environment to tell the truth, have it be received as you should with the child. You know, if they tell you the truth. But they did something really wrong. But they told you the truth like they told you the truth. So they don't need to get, you know, beaten or or yelled. At or screamed at because they told the truth. So that's kind of what he gave me. And you know, then there was just also like. I didn't want. To let all of that. Stuff that happened to me define me like. I don't like labels. You know, people have told me, like autism, ADHD, like blah, blah, blah. All of this stuff. I don't care. I I'm not a hater on the label situation. It's just for me personally. I don't like that because I fully one I've been in some pretty hellacious, like places, and I've been in some pretty scary moments in my life. And like the the kind of moments that are almost like, well, that's like, that's only for movie and books like, that's not real life. Those situations where people watch and go. I couldn't imagine. Well, I can imagine. I know exactly what it's like and I sure. Lived it. So it's like it's kind of like I I walk through this storm, I keep on walking forward and there's another storm ahead of. Me, but I made it through the last one. I'll make it through this one, you know? So that's just kind of to me. It's like it doesn't matter what you want to call it like it's still my brain. I still have to live with it every day I need. To learn how to manage. Everything and then that's when I discovered neuroplasticity, which is not a a well known like it's not Popular Science because I call it a soft science. But psychology technically is too. But you can remap your brain. And I found out when I was 27 that I don't have a left frontal lobe because of. All the trauma.

Carter

Yes, just just dark nice and switched off.

Les

His trauma causes brain damage, yeah. Yeah, I actually have nothing in my left frontal lobe. So why I'm here talking and why I can walk and make decisions and control my impulses. Like all of those things that you're left part of your brain is supposed to do. Left frontal lobe. I can do. It all, and I was like. How when I don't have like? It doesn't exist like there's no electricity. There. How can I still do all of these things? And so I went down this hole and I was like ohh so you can remap like the entire everything you're thinking all of that. And so I just kind of dived deep in how I can heal through honestly just. Changing how I think on the daily.

Carter

Yeah. So it's essentially creating new neural pathways, is that right? It's it's brain, brain training or brain brain mapping and brain training? Yeah.

Les

Correct, it's. Right. It's like highways and freeways in your head. But you know those highways broken down. We need to we need to map a different route. We. Need a detour, so why don't? We ohh you know, but this way works better. So we're just gonna take this way every time.

Carter

Yeah. So I have a limited understanding of it, but my understanding is like things like repercussion and.

Les

Kind of thing.

Carter

And that that type. Of way of training is how you create the new neural network. So if you want to implement a new task into your daily routine, it's it's all about doing that repeatedly at the same time every day, no matter what, and that creates that neural network, which will stick in your brain, which means that you will be able to function. And do that task daily no matter what is that.

Les

The gist? Yeah, it is so for. Since our brains are all like naturally mapped to the negative. That's why we like to watch crime. TV shows. That's. Why we like to hear, you know, the tragedies of others, and that's why traffic slows down when the wreck is on the opposite side of the freeway on the opposite side of the inner of the median. And yet everybody on this side is stopped because they're all looking at the wreck, you know, it's. We we are all predisposed to that, you know. That's why we say Misery loves company etc. And all of that. So like for me the mouth self hate I carried for 32 years. I don't think I'll ever be able to to describe I imagine other people will know what I'm talking about. I think everybody has that. And the self hate to various degrees, but my self hate was massive. Even if I said. A sentence. And if I mispronounce like that, if I mispronounce the. Word I would. Beat myself up for mispronouncing the word, because now that person thinks I'm an idiot. Now that person thinks I'm stupid and I would just go down this. Hill. But then the next thing I do that I did wrong. That would add on to that. So then it was snowball and it just.

Carter

Just, yeah.

Les

Got bigger and bigger and bigger. And like I hate myself. I wish I didn't exist. That was so constant in my head. That to remap that I would think, gosh, I hate myself. I wish I didn't exist. And I would literally at first I would actually like. Shake my head and go what? And I would answer out loud. To my thought. Like. No, no, we're not thinking that way. That's just what other people told you to do. That's. Not how you do. You know, like that's not what you think about yourself. That's what other people have convinced you. Over all these years. You know that you're trash, that you're pathetic, that you're worthless, that you're a monster, that you're demon, you know, like nobody likes you. You're the spawn of saying you know or. It's like just anxiety or, you know, depression for me, self harm. My vice has been self harm. I broke my nose. Before, like I would beat myself physically punching kick, like biting, scratching like anything that I could reach and I would beat the living hell out. Of myself that was probably. The hardest thing I had I had to remap because whenever I would do something that maybe, you know wrong that like I forgot to pick up. Pepsi at the grocery store for my husband and. That was the one thing the. Only thing he asked me. And I forgot to pick. It up, I would actually like beat myself up for. It mentally and.

Carter

Like physically, physically beat yourself up.

Les

Mentally and physically beat myself up. Yeah, right. Because I I made a. Simple a simple mistake now. See, when he forgets stuff at the grocery store, he's like, oh man, I'm so sorry. Ohh yeah. No, no big deal. You know, like I'll just. I'll. Pick it up later. But if I. Did that same simple mistake I held myself to a much higher standard. You know, I wasn't perfect. And then so that's sorry, I'm just kind of ran. Like I believe because.

Carter

No, no, that's that's OK. I I see a lot of kind of why these behaviours happened. And it obviously it all stems back from just the way that you were treated by everyone in your life growing up. You know, the fact that you were in abusive relationships after abusive relationships, your grandparents were abusive. Your mother admittedly said she hates you and abandoned you and all of these things like there was. There was no safe haven for you as a kid at all. Growing up your entire teen years and everything. So it's very, very understandable when you do something that you consider wrong or you muck something up. That you would act in the way that they would have acted. So you kind of revert back to your life growing up and physically beat yourself because in your mind, if you did something like that when you were in that situation, that would warrant a. Beating, yeah. That's ******* tough, dude.

Speaker

That's so.

Carter

******* tough.

Les

Well, the crazy thing is, is remember I was convinced also that like I did nothing. Nothing actually ever happened to me either, so it wasn't until I was older and helping my children through some things as well. And then I I kind of see, for instance, my youngest, her father, who had mentioned, promised her when she was five, that they would go skating the next weekend and he couldn't wait to see her. And he really like. Tilted up the entire time they were having their visitation weekend together, everything up until he left her at our door said it to her, said goodbye and then never came back, just disappeared off the face of the planet. So very similar to. Me. That hurt her. Kind of amazing thing. About that was. I had been. There, she knew at five that mom had been left by mom, you know? But she didn't know they like that. How it affects because she's only ever seen, you know. Seen how I talk about. It, but when it happened to her in a different way, but similar pain. You know, she was like mom. How do I make, like, mom? How do I make the pain stop? And I was like, holy crap. This is why. My mom left me and twice stop because in the future something like this was going to happen and I have the opportunity to help my child now. Granted, I'm not proud that. That happened to her by. Any means, but I saw the opportunity to use my pain. For something good and to heal somebody else and you know I told I was, like, the pain doesn't go away, but every single day gets better and better. And you learn how to kind of take that and you take that pain and you put it in like a little marble size. And you know, you tuck it away. And you remember it. You know it's there. And I was like. But then you can take that little, you can open it up if you want, you know, if you're kind of feeling that you need that healing today, you can open it up a little bit. You can let some tears out. You can talk about it and you can put it right back in. It's a little, it's little marble. But when you have the opportunity. To give that marble like that's your pain like look. This is my pain. This is what I. Did with it. You can actually pass that on to somebody else and maybe they can get some use from it.

Luke

Hey, guys. It's Luke here. Some of you may know me from TikTok as AKA Luke Andrew for season two of the Touched Out podcast. I'm teaming up with my good friend Carter to bring you loops, mindful matters where I'll be choosing a question or topic from my TikTok family and having a yarn about it on here. So if you want to ask a question. Suggested topic or have even recently posted a question that I haven't been able to answer. Jump back over to my tick tock if you haven't already pressed that follow button and shoot me a comment. I would definitely love to hear more about at what point you decided to be one of the men in our family to break the. Cycle whether it. Was one significant event or a combination of a bunch of small ones? Now, typically I'm genuinely chosen. Probably the toughest question for me to answer. You know, straight off the bat and the reason I say that is because anyone in my family who gives a **** is probably gonna listen to this podcast outside of steering them towards my TikTok videos, which I know a lot of them genuinely won't really watch, but Simply put the men in our family have given me a really good example of. What not to be as a father. Yeah. Let that sink in, I guess. And I I don't, I don't mean anything mean I I love these people. I I love those men. I had a lot of good times with them. My dad in particular. There are a lot of fun times, but when you're hanging out. With an adult that shies away from responsibility and lives for the moment that is going to be fun for a child outside of the anxieties that come with. Where are we gonna be tonight? As far as, like, after the pub session. Where do we stay? Will I get picked up this weekend? The inability to rely on them. Properly as a child. I think left me with a lot of thoughts as far as man, I used to have some pretty dark thoughts, to be honest with you. I mean in regards to, I guess my dad and and and a lot and a lot of the other guys in the family and also my dad because as a young boy you you wanted him present like all the time until you realised that you couldn't rely on them. And when you were there it wasn't always a safe. Environment and I know this is a difficult one for maybe even any of the men in the family that would listen to this because they think about those fun moments. But as a child, there's way more that you need than just that one fun moment. There's just so many other emotions you feel and so much more guidance you need. Than living for the fun afternoon at the park, and I think more so for me in particular, I would watch how upset my sister would get when he didn't show up or or things didn't go her way. I would see the the heartache or the pain in my mum's face. When things didn't play out for us because she would hurt for us, right? So I remember being a little boy and saying when I grow up, I'm never gonna let my children if I have them feel the way I feel right now. So yeah, I remember kicking the football. But I also remember like, just too much other **** that outweighed that, I guess. And and the interesting thing about that is is as. I got older. And I always swore I wouldn't let my children feel like that. I started going down the exact path of what I knew. I was smoking marijuana at a young age because I could always smell it in my dad's shed. I'm not black. In him. But there was a familiarity with that smell. It was almost like it's hard to explain, but something about that was almost comforting. And you knew that if they did it, you could do it even though you didn't want to be. See it's it's. It's a ******* weird trap. And not only that, I remember. Well, there's always grog around if you could. Open the beer lead. You were old enough to. Have a sip. Like I was struggle that from six 7-8 years old to try and get the top off it too. Old enough to have a sit. But then I'd remember the nights I was ******* laying in bed crying and almost wishing they'd never show up so that mum or Emma would never would never have to cry or pie in for them again. So in a sense, I was trying to step up and be the man by telling that man not to show up, but by ******* never healing. I guess the the little Luke or the young child that went through that. As I got older and the emotions that I had that were never validated or ******* whatever, I lowkey just started going down that path of being that guy. But I justified it because I was more tentative to the children's needs and I was more present in their life. For all the ups and downs. But I still numbed all the ********. With drinks and smoking just so I could turn, I guess my my mind off at night. So like I started having these guilty thoughts that I'm almost becoming the the man or the man that I never wanted to be. Instead of just taking the good parts and then filling in the rest with the traits of my mum or my nan or other women, strong role models in our life that filled in the voids of, you know, the tucking you in at night and waking you up in the morning and showing up at your concert and just being ******* present, there's a lot more to raising a child than just kicking a football. So I found myself like in a spot where I was feeling guilty that I always swore I would never be this person. Like, if I'm gonna blame him for the ****, then I have to also give him some credit for the fun times. We're fun. We're outgoing, they're charismatic. But there's more to raising. Children than that. And then when I realised that I was literally. Like ******* hiding the bad parts, I guess, but trying to use the good parts I realised I couldn't. Do that forever. And my health wasn't gonna last. So it wasn't just like one moment where I went. I need to break this cycle. This has been going on since I was a ******* child. I I was thinking about it from my earliest memories all the way through to when I had a child and all the way up until now. And this is the second time that I've attempted to break the cycle. But what it's taken, I guess, is a supporting partner, someone who's experienced their own ********. And was prepared to try and face. It with me. I think it was really important to have someone. Next to me that could. Say hey, I love you as. You. But I know there's a better version of you in there, a healthier version, somebody that. Can be be present for the children more without always having to numb and not feel not feel properly. And when you're not feeling properly and you're forcing yourself to sleep using substance you're not, you're not being 100% and there's a ****** guilt that comes with that. And then I guess so we're talking like an accumulation of small events. I think finally it took my daughter. And then being at home with my daughter, spending every day with my daughter and realising that I wanna be here for her for. Or as long as my body will allow me not in the. In the way. That I will just continue to mask my bad feelings or not express them cause at the end. Of the day I I wanna teach her that all her feelings are good. I wanna teach the boys that everything you go through is is normal. I wanna teach the boys that dad can be at home with you. Dad can show up at your school concert. That can come to your football match and he doesn't have to sit in the car park because you can't drink beers on the side of the Oval. I want to be the best version of me, but I had no real male role model to take that from, but they did have some good qualities, so I think it took my family. My family changed a lot. I was less selfish and when I'm doing it more for the. Not only did I want to be the best version of what I thought I could be, I wanted to honour little Luke's thoughts and not be the guy that he wasn't happy with in the nicest of ways. Cause I love these men, they just never face their demons and some of the good times with them were some of the best times I ever had. But the times they weren't there. Some of the darkest days I ever had. Right. So it's, I think a combination of a lot of different events and I had to finally say I am me. They created me and I wanna take what's good out of them and then mix it with all the beautiful things. My mum, my Nana and my aunties taught me and I want to be a modern day. Version of the man I always wanted to be there for me, but without the guilt of of being that guy and and and hiding things if that makes sense. Way to kick it off with a tough question, I hope I've. Answered that in some. Backwards way, but I'm I'm not hate. I'm not hating on these men when I say. Break the cycle, it's. Not like it's not like I don't wanna have any party in the way they were. I still, I will still talk to Dad and I still talk to other people and. There's so many. Things I'm grateful for, but there's still a lot of things that keep me up at night and things that I needed to heal that they weren't there for, and the women in my life did that. So I'm I'm I'll just. Do my best to mix them all and try not to **** it up.

Les

And what was cool about that was a year later she recognised another student at school in the pickup line. They were talking and she didn't say this to the girl. And the girl didn't outwardly say it to her, but when she got back in the car when? She got in the car with me, she goes. Mom, I finally. Know why that? Happened to me and I. Was like ohh why she's. Like because this girl said something. And it was very like. Casual how she said it. And she's like she said something and she's a. Mom, that girl. She doesn't have her mom or her. Dad and I was. Like, oh, she's like, yeah, I'm going to. Talk to her again. Well. She goes back. She goes back to talk to the girl next day and turns out that girl had literally just been abandoned by her mom and dad like a week before, and it was in foster care. So asked me to pick her up. Dang it, I said the. Name and it doesn't. Matter asked me to. Pick her up. 15 minutes late because that girl's foster mom is always late, but that girl thought her foster mom didn't love her, but her foster mom just would get off work. You know, it was nothing to do with the child whatsoever. Over. So they took the opportunity to say, well, my mom's late too, and she's like and your. Mommy just has. To work right. And the girl is like, yeah. So she's like, she's just working. She still loves you. She's coming. She comes every day. I see her. My mom's late, too. Don't worry, we'll just wait here together. And then she asked me to pick her. Up 15 minutes late from school. After it was like OK. At the time, she was. Seven. Wow. So this is 2 years past her. Her own experience a year into it healing, she was able to talk about it, you know. And now we're at. 8 Where she's just like, yeah, he wasn't my dad. Anyway, I got a dad, you know? So she's just like, yeah, it sucks. She thinks about him every now and then, but she's found a way to to use it.

Carter

She's healing the. World at the tender age of 6, huh?

Les

Yeah. No. So I. Tell you what? That kid dropped some bombs on me sometimes. And I'm like, oh. OK, I can learn from you.

Carter

It's it's incredible. It's incredible. Some of the the things that these kids come out with, you know, my my oldest is 4 and she'll pick up on when I'm struggling a little bit with my mental health. Like, I've been going through a little bit of burnout lately, just with, like, my work closing down at the end of the year and like job stress. And all of that ****. But this isn't about me so real quick, but she'll notice when when my my balance is off and she'll like, come and sit with me and like, stroke my arm and like, look up at me and be like I love. You, Daddy and I'm like. Don't do this now, cause I'll. Cry. They just know. They just know when you need something and it sucks that once you become adults, a lot of people lose that intuition.

Les

Yeah, I realise a lot of people forget what it was like to be a kid and I don't know, maybe because of the severity of my childhood. But I remember all of it, so I can remember being a kid. So sometimes if I some days, some days are just weirder than others, some days. I just have. A tone, and I don't know if you could tell from my voice like. This is just. How it is so it's just kind of dry. You know, so it's kind of hard to know if I'm being honest or not honest if. I'm being serious. Or or not. So if I get. More assertive with my tone. It kind of sounds like I. Got towed and but sometimes I'll say something to them to my kids and the way it comes out like I almost hear it and I go oh, like that's stung me and I flip and I go, hey, I'm so sorry. Totally did not mean that to sound how it did. You know or. Like, I'm pretty mad at you, that's why. My voice is raised. You know, but like, do better. I say way more than that, but. You know, like I. You know, sometimes and sometimes Mommy has to apologise. Mommies and daddies have to apologise. Feel like, gosh, right.

Carter

It's something that I talk about constantly and it's something that I implement daily because nobody's perfect. And the fact that our kids get to see us make mistakes and own our mistakes and honour our mistakes and then apologise is probably the best piece of parenting you can actually do. That's a surefire way to make sure that your kids can grow up resilient. And confident and. And well adjusted and somewhat balanced, it's just just them seeing that you're not ******* perfect. We're all humans, yeah.

Les

Yeah, it's weird cause you know a lot. A lot of older parents of the older generations, you know, like, oh, you're too soft on your kids or you're too that. And I go oh, really? And I just like turn around and go hey. And every single one of my kids goes what and looks at me because I've explained to them I don't want to raise my voice at you. So if you don't want to hear me raise my voice, don't make me ask you 100 times. If you hear me speak. Listen or else my voice will get higher because I'm raising my voice because I have a feeling that you're not hearing me. And if you're not giving me your attention and showing me that you're hearing me. Naturally, as I tell them, as you do, your voice becomes higher because you're not being heard. You know, don't make me don't make me say it 100 times and my voice won't get louder. That's just how that's going to go, you know, it's a give and take. Our youngest was like mom and Dad. Like, could you we. Used to raise our voices a lot more and tell our young. Just we have every now and then we'll do like a family meeting and we as. Parents ask the. Kids, what could we do better? Like. What's something that you need from us that maybe we are not giving you? We haven't given you, you know, sometimes. It's don't be on your phone so much. Mom. Don't be on Tik. T.O.K so much I'm. Well, to Tuck's kind of something I have to be on. It's kind of something that I'm doing, but I get it. Yeah, I can. You know, I can cut back on that or, but she was like, don't raise your voices. Like, don't, don't like, don't yell at it. Don't yell at me. And we're like, OK, we can definitely we do need to work on that. We. Already knew that we. But hearing her say it and her having the ability to say it really, OK, we will work on it, however. If you want us to. Do this for. You you need to do what we ask you to do when we ask, you know, it's it's simple. Give and take. They're in a relationship with us. We're in a relationship with them. Relationships require but work from both sides. And that's that's kind of how we go about that parenting style is we have a relationship. If I'm going to do the work on my end, I need you to. Do the work. On your end. Otherwise it's not fair. Now granted, no, we shouldn't. Yell at our kids. I can totally get that, but you get my point.

Carter

Sometimes it needs to happen though, right? I mean yelling and stuff like that when it becomes a constant everyday thing. That's when it's, you know, not healthy, but. There's times and places for for yelling 100% if my if my 2 year old with now 3 year old. Hits his one year old sister. I'm gonna ******* yell. I'm gonna say, oh, I don't do that. Don't use your hand. You never, ever use your hands out of anger. Don't do it again. And his his immediate response. Will he'll ******* cry everywhere because he doesn't like when I yell, but he won't hit his sister again cause he knows. If I do this. Dad's gonna yell and I don't. Like it. So yeah, yelling is is totally fine. But just if if that's your go to every single time for every little thing, that's when it's not good and that's when it's going to create specific amounts of trauma in in your kids when they get.

Les

Older, I agree. You know, I do something. Really. This is really not mainstream. At all. And you're the first person I'm saying it. To out loud.

Carter

Touchdown exclusives.

Les

Yeah. Touched out exclusive. I actually insult my children on a daily. I just never do it out of anger. They give me insults. That they hear at school. And that hurt them. And then so big word. I know it's bad. I'm sorry. But the word ********. My son is on the spectrum. He is was has been called that. So many times when he was. A first grader it shattered and broke. His soul. Until I started to use it.

Carter

You've taken the power away.

Les

Correct. I would be like ohh that was ******** or. That seemed. ********. You know, like I would, I would find a way to make the word a little bit more common. I would joke because he was. Like, well, I'm on the spectrum and. I was like so. And he's like, oh, yeah? So now when he goes to school, they're like, you're ********. And he was like, yeah, how'd you know? Like he told. You yeah. He's like how?

Speaker

How did you?

Les

Know and you know. So it's like it's like taking away the the power that we give word. And I put it on the kit on my kids. I'm like what? Like you know, Sister called Brothers. Whatever. And he's all upset about it. But then I sit there and I look at, so I look at the sister and I say, hey, look, you shouldn't be talking to people like that. Like, I don't care if it's your brother, you shouldn't use. Those words on anybody else? Period or definitely don't use them as an insult or you know to to cause harm to somebody else. That's not what we do in this House. We do not use words to hurt others. And then I look over at my. Son and he. Gets a little reprimanded as well. And I go why would you give her that kind of power? You know, she was trying to hurt you when she said that, like, why would you do that? Why would. You let her get you like this.

Carter

You're absolutely killing it as a parent mate. Well done. It's you. You know, you're creating a bunch of resilience. That's that's super cool.

Les

That's what I have tattooed on my wrist, actually resilient.

Carter

Yeah, I think you a picture of you should be in the dictionary next to it for sure. I I don't know if I've ever had the pleasure of speaking to someone with. As much resilience or fortitude as you do, it's it's truly inspiring to see and I'm really, really glad that you came on here and reached out and shared your story with me and the listeners. I do understand that you're currently writing a book about your life, is that right?

Les

That is true. I am writing a book.

Carter

Awesome. Are you near finished?

Les

Ohh right. Yes, no, no, no, I'm not. It's actually crazy. I don't know where I am because I have a lot of unfinished bits. I apologise for the booming in the background. It sounds like my daughter and dogs are running up and down, so my book is about from childhood to now. I am probably I think I'm 3 chapters and if you want to call them chapters. That's OK. It's a lot to write. It's hard to relive. The only I've been offered to like have some like people ghost. Right. You know, some bits of it. But this is kind of like one of those. This this is kind of like my eight mile M&M moment. You know? So like I'm kind of like it has to come from me. It has to come from my hand. It has to be like my soul, my words. You know, it's just there are some bits that I'm just even now I. Mean I'm only really two years. I call it recovery. I'm two years. Into recovery, so it's.

Carter

Hard. It's going to take a while.

Les

It's going to take, it's probably going to be a good year, at least before I'm probably even in, like the real official editing.

Carter

I only ask because I'm super selfish and impatient and I want to read it. Like tomorrow. But that's OK, I'll guess.

Les

Well, I I could talk to my editor.

Carter

I'll have to wait.

Les

Though and see if I can't send. You at least. An excerpt, but it might have to wait a little bit longer till you know she might want me to do more work. Because she's probably like you haven't written in a month. But I'm like. I know.

Carter

So you've actively got a book deal, huh?

Les

I do. I have a I have a literary agent, an editor and a brand manager.

Carter

That's super cool. You've spun gold from hay.

Les

Yes, I figured out. So I actually got a lot of my, my, my mentality from TV shows and books because there wasn't a good book that I didn't read where the heroine or the hero didn't have to one go through all of this bull crap before they even had the heroic moment, you know? And like TV shows and stuff like. It's always like that one person, like Phoebe from friends is my best because I watched friends my whole life, which again really shows testament to my parenting friends, is actually what raised me. But it was Phoebe and Chandler who really spoke to me because Phoebe had that crazy past. But the way she would just, like, talk about it. It was as if she was just talking about. The weather, you know and. But she always had this, like innate zeal about it, kind of a thing like. Yeah. So, like, there was a guy in the subway used to spit in. My mouth like. I don't know. Like, yeah, I lived in a.

Carter

It's just super nonchalant.

Les

Box and yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just like whatever. And then, you know, then you have have Chandler who also had, like, parental trauma and. Problems growing up in a really screwed up childhood and things like that, and he just took it and used it for comedy, you know? And then like Robin Williams, I just had all these really good. Role models that I was like. So OK, I could live in my crap. And constantly, like, even though I'm not in that place anymore in my life, I can still constantly be living. It's like trying to drive through your rear view. Mirror you're not, you're. Gonna hit something eventually. You know, like it's going to happen. So that's kind of what I decided to see. That's thing I made the choice. I'm going to be this pillar of resilience. I'm going to wear my trauma like a like a suit of armour, like a point of pride, because sometimes I'll talk about things. And then even I'm like, holy crap, that's right. I did go through that, you know, like, oh, yeah, that's right. I'm a ****** and and I need to keep moving forward. So it's hard for me to sometimes connect with people who have trauma because, you know, just based off of how I come off to people and things they're like, there's no way. There's there's no way you went through all of that. Because of like, you're fine now. That's something you get a lot when you've been. Through some stuff like. They were like but you. Seem so fine. You seem so normal and like. How'd you expect me to be?

Carter

The people that say that sort of **** that don't really understand it, though. At the end of the day and the fact that, you know, you're writing the book and you've, you've reached out to me to come on and and tell your story, which I'm I'm super honoured by the way. You know, there's a million and one mental health podcasts out there and you chose little old Australian me. So that's.

Les

Yeah, why not. That's pretty cool.

Speaker

Well, I like.

Les

What you're about? I, you know, I've. I've seen your stuff. Cleo was the one who told me like she was on your podcast. She referred she like. She's like you gotta reach out to this guy like he needs to talk to you. You need to talk to him. And I was like, yeah, no, totally. I love podcasts. You know, I love sharing my story. I love getting it out there because. It one it needs to be out there two. There's one person somewhere out there. Who absolutely, 100% needs to see my story. See my life and see who I am today. So that way they know. It's all on them like **** everybody else, like, oh, less. You know I'm not medicated. I, but I manage. I wouldn't say that I'm fully functional, but I function, you know, I don't need. I can. I can take control like, you know, like I you can you can. You just have to do the hard work. And sometimes people need like I wasn't therapy. I did therapy. I did talk therapy. I did dialectical behavioural, cognitive, behavioural. I did a lot of therapy. Umm, I didn't do it for a long time, but I've never been that type of person because of my upbringing. I only need you for a certain amount of time to help. Me. And then once I get to that point, I'm done with you. You know, like, like as far as medical professionals go.

Carter

It's kind of like. Yeah, it's kind of. Like saying, you know, I've got my **** together and when someone says I've got my **** together, you kind of picture it is all neat and tidy, but having your **** together can just be a ******* messy pile in the. Corner of your. Room. Good. Good enough. Can be good enough.

Speaker

Right.

Les

I can tell. You where my watch is. It's on the left side, on the floor and in my closet. Underneath my husband's old army book.

Carter

Yeah, that's it.

Les

It's time picked it. Up yet? I'm all I'm all.

Carter

Men, figuratively speaking, having our **** together.

Les

Is that is that?

Carter

Just an Australian saying, have you heard that saying before? I've got my **** together. OK, cool. I was like, I don't know if it was translating.

Les

Yeah, yeah. That's just being funny. I don't have a watch. It's it's on the dresser. I.

Carter

OK, no all good.

Les

Think I don't know.

Speaker

I have more.

Les

Hang on. Junk drawers in my house than I have organised drawers.

Carter

Ohh yeah, I think all of my drawers. Are junk drawers. Pretty much like I've I've got drawers that are. Four things specifically like I've got an underwear drawer. But you can. Bet that there's like 10 other things. That aren't underwear in. There that I I don't know. It's like I.

Speaker

Right.

Carter

Just ******* pushed him. In because that's a that's a job for tomorrow me and that was like 4 years ago. Tomorrow literally never comes. So is there anything that you want to throw out? To the world to end on.

Les

Two things, two quotes that were said to me that pushed me through. One was it could either. Make you or break you. It's your choice, and the other one. Is a quote from a poem, and maybe just remind the few that if all of us they speak that we are all who stand between the monsters and the weak.

Carter

I like. It what do you know?

Speaker

I I love that.

Carter

Do you know what poem that is?

Les

It's a poem called between the Monsters and the weak Michael Marks, October 2021.

Carter

Awesome. Alright, well, I will definitely look at that a bit. Further, Les, thank you so much for your time and your honesty and sharing your journey and just being you. I know I'm just a person that lives across the world that you've never talked to up until today, but I'm incredibly proud of you for being where you are and still being amongst the living. After just wading through. And less piles of ****. It's truly a testament to your resilience and your character.

Les

Well, thank you.

Carter

Thank you.

Les

I don't know how to take that off. Thank you. Cause compliments are not something I'm good at.

Speaker

Yeah, it makes your skin.

Carter

Crawl a bit.

Speaker

It does.

Carter

Alright, that's OK. You can go have a. Shower and wash all the. Nice stuff off.

Les

Now you go out there. That's like Halloween. Well, he's got a. Bunch of nice crap.

Carter

Yeah, I feel ******* sick now. Yuck.

Les

You think of it all.

Carter

Never talk to that guy again.

Speaker

He's too nice.

Les

I don't use that kind of nice. You didn't insult me once.

Carter

Ohh, you dumb *****. There you.

Les

Go. Yes, my favourite word even. I love to say *****.

Carter

It's a good word. It's a quality word. Alright, well, I'll leave. It at that. Thank you again and. We will talk soon.

Les

Awesome. Yeah. Thank you. I'm so excited, but.

Carter

That's awesome. Thank you.

Outro

Wake up. It's another day. Try and find a way to make it so my life's a better place. If there's one thing I see, then the only thing it's me, it's knowing that I'm trying to make a. Can I put it all on me. Now the other nonsense coming by repeating. If there's something I know. Let it go. Just knowing that I'm trying to make a change.