Unveiling Strength | Les' Journey Through Narcissistic Abuse and Postpartum Psychosis

Welcome to Episode 15 of Touched Out! A Mental Health Podcast for Parents

On todays episode we speak to Les, a remarkable individual from Spokane, Washington, faced immense challenges from a young age. At just 5 years old, she was placed into foster care due to her mother's abandonment. This early trauma set the stage for a series of difficult experiences.

A Mother’s Exploitation and Abuse

Les shares how her mother involved her in various cons to make money, leading to her exploitation from a young age. Raised by an abusive grandfather and a resentful step-grandmother, she constantly battled to be believed about the abuse she endured.

Homelessness, Addiction, and Gangs

At 18, Les found herself homeless, addicted to drugs, and caught up in a gang. Despite the risks, she bravely left that life behind, demonstrating her incredible resilience.

The Struggles of Motherhood

Driven by a need to be "perfect" due to the shame and trauma from her past, Les faced immense pressure as a mother. She was diagnosed with postpartum psychosis, which further complicated her path to healing.

A Turning Point

Les bravely shares her attempts to take her own life, revealing the depths of despair she faced. A significant turning point came when her daughter fell ill, motivating her to reclaim her life and care for her children.

Healing and Finding Purpose

Les's journey of healing involved meeting her supportive current husband, embracing neuroplasticity, and discovering her purpose in helping others. She emphasizes the importance of empathy in parenting and avoiding reliance on raising one's voice.

Writing to Inspire

Les is currently writing a book that documents her entire life, aiming to inspire and uplift those facing similar challenges. Her story is a testament to the power of resilience and hope.

Powerful Quotes to Reflect On

• "It can either make you or break you, it's your choice."
• "And maybe just remind the few, if ill of us they speak, that we are all that stands between the monsters and the weak." - Michael Marks

Follow and Share

If Les story has touched you, please share this episode to spread the message of resilience and hope. Follow Les on TikTok for more inspiring content: Les on TikTok

Chapters

• 0:00 Life Journey of Les
• 11:53 Mother's Abandonment and Self-Blame
• 15:43 Surviving Trauma and Healing
• 25:55 Recovery and Healing After Trauma
• 33:11 Neuroplasticity and Healing Through Brain Remapping
• 44:49 Breaking the Cycle of Fatherhood
• 49:29 Navigating Parenting Challenges and Teaching Resilience
• 56:15 Parenting Styles and Building Resilience
• 1:01:52 Resilience and Healing Journey
• 1:09:25 Resilience and Gratitude

Transcript

Carter (00:01.208)

We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of this land. We pay our respects to the elders past, present and emerging. For they hold the memories, the traditions and the culture of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people across the nation.

Carter (00:18.54)

Warning, this podcast contains explicit language and discusses sensitive topics related to mental health, childhood trauma, birth trauma, abuse, miscarriage and suicide. Listener discretion is advised. If you find these subjects distressing or triggering, we recommend taking caution and considering whether to proceed with listening. If you or someone you know is struggling, please reach out to a mental health professional or a trusted individual for support. Your wellbeing is our priority.

Welcome to the season two premiere of the Touched Out podcast. I'm your host Carter. And today we have an inspiring guest, Les, who bravely shares her incredibly tough life journey. Les, a remarkable individual from Spokane, Washington, has experienced immense challenges through her life. Due to her mother's abandonment at the age of five, Les has endured the foster care system, an abusive home life with her grandparents, drug addiction, homelessness, gang affiliation, a slew of abusive relationships, several miscarriages.

and several non -fatal suicide attempts. Les's story is nothing short of impactful and traumatic, but from the cracks in the cement rose a flower, a symbol of hope, resilience, healing and discovery for Les. Buckle up as we dive into Les's intense life journey and learn how she came out on the other side a loving, caring and devoted wife and mother of three. You can also follow Les and hear more of her journey on TikTok, www .tiktok .com slash at the Les Factor.

I hope you enjoy today's episode. Hit like and share on the podcast platform of your choice so the podcast can continue to find its way into the ears of new listeners. You can also find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok and YouTube at Touched Out Podcast. For those who wish to support the show in other ways, you can also donate via PayPal. You can find social media and donation links as well as information from today's episode in the episode description. Thank you for being part of my podcast family. Let's keep this journey going together.

It's been tough, so take a breath From everything right here and Take some time It's alright You'll be fine Aftertouch, I'll forget Take all night

Carter (02:44.398)

Okay, so today we've got Les. Les is 34 from Spokane, Washington. She's got four kids, a 12 year old, an 11 year old, a 9 year old, and a 7 year old. Thank you very much for joining me. How are you today? Good, how are you? I'm well, thank you. It's been hard trying to get all of this set up. I feel really really...

unprofessional when it comes to our podcast together because I've had to cancel on you like three times due to various illnesses within the family and whatnot. So I do apologize and I thank you for bearing with me and coming on today. Yeah, of course. No worries. mean, I was sick too, you know, it happens. It does happen. So you reached out to me with quite a story. It's probably the most intense story that I've personally read, let alone had on the podcast. So

I'm quite excited to get into it and hear about your life and your journey and yeah, how about we start from the very beginning for you? Okay. Well, the beginning would be childhood, I suppose. So I was in and out of foster care for six years. In and out being, if I wasn't in foster care, I was with my biological mother. And if I wasn't with my biological mother, I was in foster care. There's a lot of that happens, I think more than people realize the back and forth constantly.

And she did me a huge favor when I was five and left me on a doorstep. Never came back. Well, basically I was coming home from kindergarten and we were going to go to the library. So this is the nineties and yes, they let five year olds walk blocks home from the bus stop. Different now, but then, so just walked home. It was about a block and a half from the bus stop and the lights were on. Music was playing.

Nobody was home. I just assumed she'd come back. And she didn't. Turns out she was halfway to Arizona in a stolen vehicle. But that was the last time I was taken from her and the last time I would see her until I was like eight years old. And then some foster homes were good, some foster homes were bad. And so my maternal grandfather and my step -grandmother drove from California to Oklahoma where I was, picked me up, brought me back to California. So I lived there for 10 years in the Central Valley area.

Carter (05:11.022)

Grandfather was a raging alcoholic. He was 20 years my step -grandmother senior so there was a huge split difference and She I don't even know the best description for that woman I don't think she was ready for the kind of child that she took in I was pretty it was pretty messed up Understandably. Yeah, I mean I was sexually abused, you know, she trade me for favors and things stuff like that. I

you we were homeless she teach me how to like I say it like this because movies but like run a con you know like we're standing on the corner and cars coming you know she'd pinch me and she tell me to cry so I start crying and then you know people give her money because look at my poor kid on the side of the road but I was you know she was hurting so I would cry but you know it worked and we made money and then we just go on our way and I don't think they were ready for that kind of child I say that kind of because

the whole time in my story I've seen myself as the problem and the monster. So like, if I entered into your life, your life would be destroyed. That's just how I always saw it. So you know, I was just like a little demon. I lied a lot to them about stupid stuff, but now that I'm older and I raise my own kids, I'm like, kids lie. Like, that's just what they do. It, you know, it wasn't, it was something that I thought or at least was convinced to believe.

you know, only I did in this entire world. Did I ever make a mistake or, you know, nobody else? It was hard because grandfather was an alcoholic and he was abusive as well. And step -grandmother became a police officer, so she was never home. So, gosh, there's just a lot of neglect. If, you know, if I said something happened, it didn't. I made it up. It was a lie. Social worker came. I told her that I was being physically abused by my grandparents. And the social

So taking me from the home, she went straight to my grandparents and was like, are you abusing her? And they're of course were like, no, like she lies. Like why? blah, blah, blah, blah. And then she left. That was, that was a really long day for me. So right off the rip, I didn't really have an opportunity I think to heal from the first five years of my life, let alone, you know, up until I was about, I was 18 and we had moved up to North Idaho when I was 16 and

Carter (07:34.83)

So I went from a school of 4 ,000 to a school of 150, something like that. Like the whole school was 150. 4 ,000 was like the whole school too. So it was this big, massive culture shock for me. And then of course, you know, the abuse that I was experiencing at home, I started to get bullied in school because I was the new kid and I was from California and everybody in North Idaho, nobody wants anybody from California. And you know, all the stuff that was going on. School was an escape for me my whole

Like I love school, but I also love school because school kept me safe. Cause if I was at school, I was fine. It would be the going home part that sucked, which like COVID made me really worry, you know, for those kids, like when everybody had to stay in their homes and, and stuff like that, I was, my heart was really going out to the children that were like me that were better off away from home than they were inside the home. And I couldn't imagine having to be stuck, you know? Yeah, definitely. So basically they told me I wasn't going to graduate. They treated

Like my biological mother, like as if I was her and they never like looked at less as a complete separate entity, you know, so like their disdain for her came out because I look like her, I sound like her, I act like her, you know, so it, was doomed from the beginning, but they told me I wouldn't be able to graduate high school. And so I did just to prove them wrong. Spots a hell of a thing, isn't it? Yeah. Gave him the double bird and dipped out. I was like, bye.

Did what I came to do and now I don't ever have to see you again. So you were with your Grandparents until 18. Is that right? Yeah 12 years. Okay well, I mean you your entire childhood and Teenaged life sounds like you were just in survival made the entire time I can't even begin to imagine how horrific that must have been for you So your mom leaving in a stolen car and just leaving you on the front porch

Are these things, were these things happening because of addiction or was she just generally not a caring parent or person? So I've thought, I think I've thought about this a lot, obviously. The way I see it is she did not, she, she kind of started off life with the same way I did in a way of just having a really raw hand dealt. My biological grandmother is actually a lot like my biological mother. And then of course my grandfather having been

Carter (10:01.324)

by the same set of parents she was raised by, including my stepmother, she was part of that raising. I can see why she just kept walking to the edge and just, you know, downhill. Really crappy support system. You, you know, like nothing you say matters. If you're trying to set a boundary, don't. It's not gonna, it's not gonna happen. Like you're, when you're a child specifically in that family, a hundred percent

Pathetic, you know, like you're useless until you can be useful and She didn't have she didn't have good nurture growing up. She didn't you know, she didn't have a good support system Then she met my sister my biological sister's dad. I think they were married I'm not entirely sure if she ever actually married him, but he they had a daughter and a son together and So my brother Justin, he's the only name I'll drop

My brother Justin, he passed away when he was four months old. So she was 19, 20 when she lost her baby to SIDS. And I think there was a lot of postpartum, just trauma in general, you know, from her childhood. She claimed that my grandfather raped her when she was younger. I believe it. That's all I'll say. And

You know, so like she took to drugs, she took to sex, she took to alcohol. Like when people go through these damaging experiences, you know, you only do the only thing that's comfortable to you is other damaging things, other things that are bad for you. Having something that's good for you is almost foreign, you know? So I think a lot of that, I my birth was a hundred percent, I believe.

the only reason why she had me is because I think she needed to fulfill that that whole that Justin left and she was 21 when she had me. So she was just a kid. Like to me, 21 is young, you know, and so she didn't have a good support system, didn't have good coping mechanisms, didn't even really see she didn't see the value that she could just break that chain, you know, break that mold. Like she just didn't have the internal

Carter (12:24.11)

strength to to pull break herself out of it because I don't think she believed that she like not that she couldn't but I don't think she believed that she could even deserve it. Yeah so it's very much like a hurt people hurt people kind of scenario. Right and that's one thing too I never had any anger towards any of my abusers because the only thing that I ever came to my head was like what happened to you. To make you this way. Yeah.

I was always like the curious things like what happened to you to make you like that. Yeah. So even from a young age you felt that way you felt like that this was more about them than it was about you. Yeah. I was you know it's kind of more like that famous saying now is who hurt you. Yeah. And it didn't really have the effect on me that I think people would expect it to. So but then again also with with my grandparents you know all the stuff that I would talk about that I did go through they would tell me that it

So they really brainwashed me when in that 12 years I was with them because they made me believe like all the things that I remember happening didn't happen and they would do that. They continue to do that now. I don't have correspondence with them, but they are in correspondence with my ex -husband. So I get to hear all those things through my kids.

Stay with us. We'll be right

Carter (13:53.88)

We are proud to announce our children's book, Girls Can Wear Pants Too is up for pre -order. Head to the podcast Instagram and hit the bio link to sign up for pre -order today.

Carter (14:06.67)

So you said that when you say your mother essentially abandoned you, don't know if you would like for me to use that word or not. that's fine. Okay. So your mother abandoned you when you were five and you said you didn't see her again until you were eight. So is that the last time you've seen her or is she someone that's a part of your life in any way, shape or form now? Or that's the last time I saw her physically in person and it was a supervised visitation with CPS.

Other than that, I have not seen her in person. We have had conversations, if you can call them that, throughout the years. She still hates me and, you know, lot of everything she's done is my fault. But to be honest, as an adult and as a mother, I don't believe that she actually thinks that. But I do believe that it makes her feel better to say that. It's better to make it my fault than it is for her to make it her fault because then she would have to actually admit.

all the things that she's done. Yeah, and admitting fault to leaving your kid on a doorstep is, that would be a hard one to admit. Yeah, and I get it. I actually get it because I went through, so we'll just jump ahead a little bit. So at 18, I was homeless and then I was in a gang. I was doing drugs, doing all kinds of bad things. I got jumped out of the gang. So that's like a two and a half minute beating for those who don't know what being jumped out means.

And I was coming down off of like, which I was withdrawing. I had decided I didn't want that life. I got dumped by a friend after the beating at a gas station near dumpster. So was hanging out there with my dog and all I wanted to do is go home. And then this family took me in and there's more on that, but that's totally different story. Let me tell you. I just know they took me in there. Great. And they're my family now. I have, so I have a mom, dad, all

But when I got married to my husband, he took me from them, from that family, like telling me like, they're not your real family. know, they're they're cold. Like your grandparents were the ones we should go back to, blah, blah, blah. So we did. And now I'm divorced, bringing my grandparents in was the worst thing possible. I started to, so I had six pregnancies in three years, but I had three live births and a lot of repressed trauma.

Carter (16:27.96)

Like I would talk, like I talk about being left on a doorstep. Like we were talking about one time I went to get ice cream with my dad, you know, like that's two stories or like the exact same thing. Yeah. Reminiscent to me. So, and it throws people off sometimes how casually I can just talk about, you know, my trauma, because it wasn't until I was an adult that I realized that I had trauma. Because everybody, you know, you're in a friend group, you're going bowling

Everybody's chit -chatting and talking about childhood memories and then I pop up and I'm like, yeah, I have a childhood memory and I bring it in and like, whoa. A bit of a trauma dump. Yeah. They're like, wait a minute. And I'm like, You know, like genuinely I. You thought that was just a normal experience? Yeah. I thought everybody experienced all the things that I experienced. So I never really actually realized that I had experienced any sort of trauma until I had my children. Cause there was a lot

guilt that I was getting because I was trying, I was actively trying the hardest I could to not be the mother that I had or the parents that I had growing up. And so I was like trying to be like perfect and hard. I was really going, I was going too hard. I was trying way too hard. And so you have your typical, your normal parent guilt. But then on top of that, for me, I had the fear of being my mother.

because that's how I was told I was going to be like growing up. Like you're just going to be like, I said her name. can blip it out. It's fine. Thank you. She, you know, they're like, you're going to be like her. And I believed that. so, you know, toddlers, I'm just going to use this example. I would get really upset with my oldest and like if I raised my voice or clenched my fist, like I grew up in a very violent.

world. So like that's kind of your first reaction. But even if I like clenched my fist, even though I didn't pull back like I was going to hit him, I didn't hit him, I never hit my kids, but like just clenching my fist because I was angry would bring me so much shame and guilt that I would put them down for a nap and then I would tear myself to pieces, you know? Like and so that the multiple pregnancies, the hormones,

Carter (18:46.882)

The suppressed trauma, everything, all just kind of caved in on me. And I ended up with postpartum psychosis and I broke. I snapped. I didn't want to be a mom anymore. I didn't want to be married. I felt like my kids could find a better mom. You know, my husband can find a better wife. I wasn't living up to the standards. I didn't look like all the moms on social media. I, you know, I couldn't keep

I wasn't doing a good job. So I went on vacation to try to reinvent my, don't know, revamp, you know, just relax, recharge. And I went down to California to visit my grandfather, my mother's side of the family. And my step -grandmother decided to spread some weird rumor that I was sleeping with my cousin. And that is a full truth. We went to Disneyland while I was down

together, my cousin and I, he had just gotten back from Afghanistan. He was blown up by IED, so none of us had seen him in like two years because he was stuck overseas getting in a coma and you know, we went down to Disneyland and we were sharing a room, two beds, but one room, we're family. And yeah, so she convinced my ex that I was sleeping with my cousin and I was already wanting a divorce at that

So, and then like another family member told my grandmother and my ex -husband that. And then I came home to nobody believing a word that I said, which was really strange for me and my ex -husband at the time. We actually had a good relationship, at least I thought, until that started. I know it sounds really weird to say it, that's like the only story I could think of that could really show the toxicity in that woman. And once I realized...

I wasn't a good mom. wasn't a good parent. I wasn't a good daughter. I wasn't a good cousin. know, like I just shit. I wasn't good at anything. So I tried to take my life. I tried four times and the last time there was no way I should have been alive. But a friend of ours showed up at the house and found me on the bathroom floor. You know, so like that actually should have been the time I was gone, but it was after that last attempt that my husband and I, my ex -husband and I got to a fight.

Carter (21:08.91)

when I got out of the hospital because basically, you he was just saying like, you're not grateful for anything that you have, you know, like I was 280 pounds at the time. So he was like, you know, like you just need to think better. Like if you get healthy and lose weight, you'll be happier, you know, like all the stereotypical mumbo jumbo that people give that either have never experienced mental

Or don't want to admit that they've ever experienced mental health. Like those are the two types of people who will give you those stupid cliche like don't be sad. Yeah, you have so much in your life to be grateful for. Why are you unhappy? I don't know. That's the point. That's the point. I don't know. I understand everything you just said, but I still feel this way. So anyway, I left and then he wouldn't let me come

And then he took the kit. gave him custody of the kids because I honestly thought that I was that shit crazy, which I kind of was psychosis. Postpartum psychosis can do some pretty crazy things to people. And a lot of people don't realize that. Not enough people know about postpartum psychosis. I've had another guest on who talked really, really earnestly about it and her experiences of like standing over her crying baby, thinking about how long she would have

put a pillow over the baby's face just to make it sleep. Not to kill it, but just to make it sleep. just like, yeah, it's, it's gnarly. It's what a harrowing story, mate. I saw for somebody named Les, I'm a lot. And the fact that you have a catchphrase for your own name really, really kind of solidifies the shit that you've been through.

That's funny. My other ones you get more with less, but that's only if I'm a politician. Wow. I mean, first of all, I'm at a loss for words. The only thing I really can say is fuck all of those people. Like what fucking assholes. And if you weren't in Washington, I'd give you a big hug because I feel like that's all you really needed. Just a lot of, a lot of hugs and a lot of like you're not a bad person's just how do you even begin to

Carter (23:28.438)

How do you begin to heal from that entire story? Cause what you've just told me is that you've got an entire life worth of trauma. Every single day was, was survival. You never knew what bad shit was going to happen. You always knew that no good shit was going to happen. That's, that's fucking tough. So the fact that you are here talking to me today is an absolute fucking hats off to you moment. Thank you. Jesus Christ. Yeah. So can you run me through?

the turning point of your life and where the trauma began to be healed and how that looks. yes, perfect. But let me just add, there's just one more little gap error in my life that I have to add to before I get to the part where I healed. Please do. So being away from my kids, he took them over to Montana, not having custody of them. I decided, and I was living in my car. I was like, why not just go get wasted every

And so I did that a lot and I ended up getting pregnant again with my youngest and her dad turned out to be a drug addicted, abusive cheater. So I went through 18 months of that. was pregnant with her for nine months and then when she was, I guess that was about 16 months because she was about four months old when him and I left. And

I got her and I out of that situation when she was a young infant, then she started to become the doctors called it terminally ill. So the first year of her life, I had to worry about like him coming into the hospital room and like causing a scene if I didn't like give him sex at the hospital. Yeah. With our child in the hospital bed, completely catatonic. was nothing. It wasn't like, hey, how is she doing? It was.

Like I'm here to have sex right so I wasn't even about her and then of course, know He was your typical like a typical domestic violence and I'm not trying to like make it sound like it's like, know your typical thing It's just more of you know don't need to go into details except for I would get beat and then if I found out Cheat on me was like 30 women and I found out every single time back to when I said, know Like you don't do things that are good for you when you're from a always bad environment. I

Carter (25:52.812)

I stayed more because I didn't want to have one more child whose parents weren't intact. That was the actual reason I stayed for as long as I did. then when I, and then when we got out, like he'd show up at my apartment, you know, and like one time he like, he grabbed me by my neck and pushed me up against the wall so hard that the nail to the calendar went into the stud, like with, from my back. like, he took like all my money that I had for that month. And at the time the state

Like giving very good, like I had $15 of groceries for the month and I had four small children, you know, every other weekend at that point. I got some custody back and so I tried to spend that for them, you know, so I actually lost people are always shocked when I say I lost 140 pounds in a year. But what I, cause you know, you don't want to be a trauma dumper, but like the reason why was because I didn't have money for food and I made sure that my kids ate before I did. And a lot of the times

there wasn't any food left because you know, they're still hungry or this or that. And so I just like, didn't eat. And then my daughter, she was, I'll bleep it all out. Don't stress. Well, you'll might like this since you're from Australia, but her name's not that it matters, but it is a cool name. She just discovered two days ago that there was Australia. So sorry. Sorry. I just gave you a whole bunch of work to do there. That's okay. But

Anyway, it turns out she had celiac disease and gastroparesis, but we didn't know what that was. I actually, so I was doing, I was a single mom, four small kids, hardly any money. And I had a child that was in and out of the hospital. So I was losing jobs like every couple of months. And, she, was the only one that she had. So I had to, I had to get good. I stopped partying. You know, I started like really trying to hunker down. If I went to an employer, I'd be really, really honest about her health and all of that and my schedule and what I needed and everything.

But I lost a lot of jobs. I lost a lot of sleep. Just trying to keep my head above the water so that way I could hold my child's head up. If that makes sense. Like that's the only reason why I was trying to even like catch a breath and to keep going. You were just being the raft. Right. Yeah. So it was five years of that after single mom. And that's when my healing starts to answer your question. My husband now right before

Carter (28:21.838)

Right before him, I did like two years, 100 % sober off of everything. didn't like drink, I didn't have sex with random people or anybody. I just really focused on one, my child, keeping her alive. And they were telling me she's not gonna make it past five, but she's eight now. She just turned. And with her two diagnoses, they say 20 years and I'm like, bet. She's probably gonna make it to 80.

You know, like all of that on top of like recovering from postpartum and also just trying to get rid of the shame of not being a mother without her children and it almost felt like a lie to say that I was a mom of four when I wasn't actively involved in raising three and as a matter of fact anybody could say it like this but I abandoned them. You know, I

Yeah, were my reasons pure sure, but it doesn't change the fact that I still left, you know? Like, so it wasn't until my husband now helping me stand up to my ex -husband because he treats treats me like the garbage that I am and I say that loosely. I don't believe that now. And it was more so my husband because he would like, like I would self destruct or self sabotage a situation.

And then he would cruise through that situation and then like do things like look at me and go, are you done now? Like, are we going to talk about what's actually going on or are you going to keep doing that? And I'm like, what? Or, you know, he said like, well, you know, I'd feel so bad that I upset him so bad. And he'd go, it's fine, babe. Like, I love you. It happens. That's what like I was like, what? Like, he's like,

You know, like if I get upset with him and I use like a tone or I raise my voice just a smidge because I'm irritated, like instantly I'd pull back and go, I'm so sorry. He's like, right, but I was annoying you. You know, like he's like, you're setting a boundary. And that's a trauma response. Yeah. And so he really kind of, we made, joked about it for a couple of years because it was like, he's not only a dad to my daughter, but he's a dad to me. He's like raising his wife because I would spend

Carter (30:43.256)

Like, because I wanted to be better. I wanted to be like a normal person. I wanted to feel normal. Whatever that could look like. But I think really the true answer is it is normal. I did feel normal. Some people feel that way. You know, other people don't. Sometimes you go on like a roller coaster ride with it. But, you know, he helped me realize like that those dysfunctional things about ourselves, like other people have those dysfunctional things. just, you

Mine might be like his might be like anger might be his thing and you know mine is my thing was lying. I would still do it into my adulthood and he helped me through that. Well basically what he did was he gave me a self a safe environment to tell the truth have it be received as you should with a child. You know if they tell you the truth but they did something really wrong but they told you the truth like they told you the truth so they don't need to

you know, beaten or yelled at or screamed at because they told the truth. Yeah. That's kind of what he gave me. And, know, then there was just also like, I didn't want to let all of that stuff that happened to me define me. Like, I don't like labels. You know, people have told me like autism, ADHD, like blah, blah, blah, all of this stuff. I don't care. I'm not a hater on the label situation. It's just for me personally, I don't like that because I fully won.

I've been in some pretty hellacious, like, places and I've been in some pretty scary moments in my life and, like, the kind of moments that are almost like, whoa, that's like, that's only for movie and books. Like, that's not real life. Those situations where people watch and go, I couldn't imagine. Well, I can imagine. I know exactly what it's like. And I survived it. So it's like, it's kind of like I walk through this storm. I keep on walking forward and there's another storm ahead of me,

I made it through the last one. I'll make it through this one. Yeah. You know? So that's just kind of... To me, like it doesn't matter what you want to call it. Like it's still my brain. I still have to live with it every day. I need to learn how to manage everything. And then that's when I discovered neuroplasticity, which is not a well -known... Like it's not popular science because I call it a soft science, but psychology technically is too. But you can remap your brain.

Carter (33:07.758)

And I found out when I was 27 that I don't have a left frontal lobe because of all the trauma. Yes. Trauma causes brain damage. Nice and switched off. Yeah. I actually have nothing in my left frontal lobe. So why I'm here talking and why I can walk and make decisions and control my impulses, like all of those things that your left part of your brain is supposed to do left frontal lobe. I can do it all. And I was like,

When I don't have like it doesn't exist, like there's no electricity there. How can I still do all of these things? And so I went down this hole and I was like, so you can remap like the entire everything you're thinking all of that. And so I just kind of dived deep in how I can heal through honestly, just changing how I think on a daily. Yeah. So it's essentially creating new neural pathways. Is that right? It's brain training.

Brain mapping and brain training. Yeah, right. Let's like highways and freeways in your head, but you know, this highway is broken down. We need to, we need to map a different route. We need a detour. So why don't we, you know, but this way works better. So we're just going to take this way every time kind of thing. So I have a limited understanding of it, but my understanding is like things like repercussion and that type of way of training is how you create the new neural network. So if you want to implement a

task into your daily routine it's it's all about doing that repeatedly at the same time every day no matter what and that creates that neural network which will stick in your brain which means that you will be able to function and do that task daily no matter what is that the gist. Yeah it is so for instance our brains are all like naturally mapped to the negative that's why we like to watch crime TV shows that's why we like to hear you know the tragedies of others

That's why traffic slows down when the wreck is on the opposite side of the freeway on the opposite side of the of the median. And yet everybody on this side is stopped because they're all looking at the wreck. You know, it's like we are all predisposed to that. You know, that's why we say misery loves company, et cetera, all of that. So like for me, the amount of self -hate I carried for 32 years, I don't think I'll ever be able to to describe.

Carter (35:31.564)

I imagine other people will know what I'm talking about. I think everybody has that kind of self -hate to various degrees, but my self -hate was massive. Even if I said a sentence and if I mispronounce like that, if I mispronounce the word, I would beat myself up for mispronouncing the word because now that person thinks I'm an idiot, now that person thinks I'm stupid, and I would just go down this hill.

But then the next thing I do that I did wrong, that would add on to that. So then it would snowball. it just got bigger and bigger and bigger. And like, I hate myself. I wish I didn't exist. That was so constant in my head that to remap that, I would think, gosh, I hate myself. I wish I didn't exist. And I would literally at first, I would actually like shake my head and go, what? And I would answer out loud to my thought.

Like, no, no, we're not thinking that way. That's just what other people told you to do. That's not how you do, you know? Like, that's not what you think about yourself. That's what other people have convinced you over all these years, you know, that you're trash, that you're pathetic, that you're worthless, that you're a monster, that you're demon, you know, like nobody likes you. You're the spawn of Satan, you know, or it's like just anxiety or, you know, depression. For me, self -harm. My vice has been self -harm. I broke my nose.

before. Like, I would beat myself physically. Punching, kick, like biting, scratching, like anything that I could reach. And I would beat the living hell out of myself. That was probably the hardest thing I had to remap. Because whenever I would do something that maybe, you know, wrong that like I forgot to pick up a Pepsi at the grocery store for my husband and that was the one thing, the only thing he asked

and I forgot to pick it up, I would actually like beat myself up for it. Like physically beat yourself up mentally and physically beat myself up. Yeah. Right. Because I made a simple, a simple mistake. Now see when he forgets stuff at the grocery store, he's like, man, I'm so sorry. yeah, no big deal. You know, like I'll just pick it up later. But if I did that same simple mistake, I held myself to a much higher standard. You know, I wasn't perfect. And then, so that's,

Carter (37:55.554)

Sorry, I'm just kind of ran. No, that's, that's okay. I see a lot of kind of why these behaviors happened and it obviously it all stems back from just the way that you were treated by everyone in your life growing up. You know, the fact that you were in abusive relationships after abusive relationships, your grandparents were abusive. Your mother admittedly said she hates you

abandoned you and all of these things like there was there was no safe haven for you as a kid at all growing up your entire teen years and everything so it's very very understandable when you do something that you consider wrong or you muck something up that you would act in the way that they would have acted so you kind of revert back to your life growing up and physically beat yourself because.

In your mind, if you did something like that when you were in that situation, that would warrant a beating. Yeah. That's fucking tough, dude. It's so fucking tough. Well, the crazy thing is, is remember, I was convinced also that like nothing, nothing actually ever happened to me either. So it wasn't until I was older and helping Mike children through some things as well. And then I kind of see, for instance, my youngest, her father, who I mentioned.

promised her when she was five that they would go skating the next weekend and he couldn't wait to see her and he really like built it up the entire time they were having their visitation weekend together. Everything up until he left her at our door, said it to her, said goodbye and then never came back. Just disappeared off the face of the planet. So very similar to me. That hurt her. But the kind of amazing thing about that was I had been there. She knew at five that mom had been left by mom, you know,

She didn't know how it affects, because she's only ever seen how I talk about it. when it happened to her in a different way, similar pain, she was like, Mom, how do I make the pain stop? And I was like, holy crap! This is why my mom left me on a toy step! It because in the future something like this was going to happen, and I have the opportunity to help my child. Now, granted, I'm not proud that that happened to her by any means, but I saw the opportunity to use

Carter (40:20.042)

my pain for something good and to heal somebody else. And you know, I told her, was like, the pain doesn't go away, but every single day it gets better and better. And you learn how to kind of take that and you take that pain and you put it in like a little marble size thing and you you tuck it away and you remember it, you know it's there. And I was like, but then you can take that little, you can open it up if you want, you know, if you're kind of feeling that you need that healing today, you can open it up a little bit. You can let some tears

You can talk about it and then can put it right back in its little marble. But when you have the opportunity to give that marble, like that's your pain, like look, this is my pain, this is what I did with it. You can actually pass that on to somebody else and maybe they can get some use from

Carter (41:13.806)

Some of you may know me from TikTok as aka Luke Andrew. For season two of the Touched Out podcast, I'm teaming up with my good friend Carter to bring you Luke's mindful matters, where I'll be choosing a question or topic from my TikTok family and having a yarn about it on here. So if you want to ask a question, suggest a topic, or have even recently posted a question that I haven't been able to answer, jump back over to my TikTok. If you haven't already, press that follow button and shoot me a comment.

I would definitely love to hear more about at what point you decided to be one of the men in our family to break the cycle, whether it was one significant event or a combination of a bunch of small ones. Now, typically, I've genuinely chosen probably the toughest question for me to answer here straight off the bat. And the reason I say that is

Anyone in my family who gives a shit is probably gonna listen to this podcast outside of steering them towards my TikTok videos, which I know a lot of them genuinely won't really watch. But simply put, the men in our family have given me a really good example of what not to be as a father. Yeah, let that sink in, I guess. And I don't mean anything mean.

I love these people. I love those men. I had a lot of good times with them. My dad in particular. There were a lot of fun times, but when you're hanging out with an adult that shies away from responsibility and lives for the moment, that is going to be fun for a child outside of the anxieties that come with, where are we gonna be tonight? As far as like after the pub session, where do we stay? Will I get picked up this weekend? The inability to rely on them properly as a child.

I think left me with a lot of thoughts as far as, man, I used to have some pretty dark thoughts to be honest with you. I mean, in regards to, I guess my dad and a lot of the other guys in the family, more so my dad, because as a young boy, you wanted him present like all the time until you realized that you couldn't rely on them. And when you were there, it wasn't always a safe environment. And I know this is a difficult one for maybe even any of the men in the family that would listen to this because they think about those fun moments,

Carter (43:27.006)

As a child, there's way more that you need than just that one fun moment. There's just so many other emotions you feel and so much more guidance you need than living for the fun afternoon at the park. And I think more so for me in particular, I would watch how upset my sister would get when he didn't show up or things didn't go her way. I would see the heartache or the pain in my mum's face when things didn't play out for us, because she would hurt for us, right?

So I remember being a little boy and saying, when I grow up, I'm never gonna let my children, if I have them, feel the way I feel right now. So yeah, I remembered kicking the football, but I also remembered like, just too much other shit that outweighed that, I guess. And the interesting thing about that is, is as I got older, and I always swore I wouldn't let my children feel like that, I started going down the exact path of what I knew.

I was smoking marijuana at a young age, because I could always smell it in my dad's shed. I'm not blaming him, but there was a familiarity with that smell. It was almost like, hard to explain, but something about that was almost comforting and you knew that if they did it, you could do it, even though you didn't want to be, see, it's a fucking weird trap. And not only that, I remember, well, there was always grog around, if you could open the beer lid.

you were old enough to have a sip. Like I was struggling with that from six, seven, eight years old to try and get the top off it, to be old enough to have a sip. But then I'd remember the nights I was fucking laying in bed crying, almost wishing they'd never show up so that mum or Emma would never have to cry or pine for them again. So in a sense, I was trying to step up and be the man by telling that man not to show up. But by fucking never healing, I guess, the little Luke or the young child that went through

As I got older and the emotions that I had that were never validated or fucking whatever, I low key just started going down that path of being that guy, but I justified it because I was more tentative to the children's needs and I was more present in their life for all the ups and downs, but I still numbed all the bullshit with drinks and smoking just so I could turn, I guess, my mind off at night. So like I started having these guilty thoughts that I'm almost becoming the man.

Carter (45:46.966)

or the men that I never wanted to be, instead of just taking the good parts and then filling in the rest with the traits of my mom or my nan or other women, strong role models in our life that filled in the voids of, you know, the tucking you in at night and the waking you up in the morning and showing up at your concert and just being fucking present. There's a lot more to raising a child than just kicking a football. So I found myself like in a spot where I was feeling guilty.

that I always swore I would never be this person. Like if I'm gonna blame them for the shit, then I have to also give them some credit for the fun times. We're fun, we're outgoing, they're charismatic, but there's more to raising children than that. And then when I realized that I was literally like fucking hiding the bad parts, I guess, but trying to use the good parts, I realized I couldn't do that forever and my health wasn't gonna last. So it wasn't just like one moment where I went, I need to break this cycle.

This has been going on since I was a fucking child. I was thinking about it from my earliest memories, all the way through to when I had a child and all the way up until now. And this is the second time that I've attempted to break the cycle. But what it's taken, I guess, is a supporting partner, someone who's experienced their own bullshit and was prepared to try and face it with me. I think it was really important to have someone next to me that could say, hey, I love you as you.

But I know there's a better version of you in there, a healthier version, somebody that can be present for the children more without always having to numb and not feel, not feel properly. And when you're not feeling properly and you're forcing yourself to sleep using substance, you're not being 100%. And there's a shitty guilt that comes with that. And then I guess, so we're talking like an accumulation of small events. I think finally it took my daughter and then being at home with my daughter.

spending every day with my daughter and realizing that I wanna be here for her forever or as long as my body will allow me, not in the way that I will just continue to mask my bad feelings or not express them. Cause at the end of the day, I wanna teach her that, her feelings are good. I wanna teach the boys that everything you go through is normal. I wanna teach the boys that dad can be at home with you. Dad can show up at your school concert.

Carter (48:00.888)

Dad can come to your football match and he doesn't have to sit in the car park because you can't drink beers on the side of the oval. I want to be the best version of me, but I had no real male role model to take that from, but they did have some good qualities. So I think it took my family. My family changed a lot. I was less selfish and when I'm doing it more for them, not only did I want to be the best version of what I thought I could be, I wanted to honor little Luke's thoughts and not be the guy that he wasn't happy with.

in the nicest of ways. Cause I love these men. They just never face their demons. And some of the good times with them were some of the best times I ever had. But the times they weren't there, some of the darkest days I ever had, right? So it's, think, a combination of a lot of different events. And I had to finally say, I am me. They created me. And I want to take what's good out of them and then mix it with all the beautiful things my mom and my nan and my aunties taught me. And I want to be a modern day version.

of the man I always wanted to be there for me, but without the guilt of being that guy and hiding things, if that makes sense. Way to kick it off with a tough question. I hope I've answered that in some backwards way, but I'm not hating on these men. When I say break the cycle, it's not like I don't wanna have any part in the way they were. I still talk to dad and I still talk to other people and there's so many things I'm grateful for, but there's still a lot of things that keep me up at night and things that I needed to heal that they weren't there for.

and the women in my life did that. So I'm just gonna do my best to mix them all and try not to fuck it

And what was cool about that was a year later, she recognized another student at school in the pickup line. They were talking and she didn't say this to the girl and the girl didn't outwardly say it to her. But when she got back in the car, when she got in the car with me, she goes, Mom, I finally know why that happened to me. And I was like, why? She's like, because this girl said something and it was very like casual how she said it. And she's like, she said something and she's a mom.

Carter (50:02.894)

that girl, she doesn't have her mom or her dad. And I was like, she's like, yeah, I'm going to talk to her again. Well, she goes back. She goes back to talk to the girl next day and turns out that girl had literally just been abandoned by her mom and dad like a week before and it was in foster care. So asked me to pick her up. Dang it. I said the name again. It doesn't matter. Asked me to pick her up 15 minutes late.

Because that girl's foster mom is always late. But that girl thought her foster mom didn't love her. But her foster mom just would get off work. You know, it was nothing to do with the child whatsoever. So they took the opportunity to say, well, my mom's late too. And she's like, and your mommy just has to work. Right. And the girl was like, yeah. So she's like, she's just working. She still loves you. She's coming. She comes every day. I see her. My mom's late too. Don't worry. We'll just wait here together.

And then she asked me to pick her up 15 minutes late from school after that. was like, okay. How old at the time? She was seven. Well, this is two years past her, her own experience a year into it, healing. She was able to talk about it, you know, and now we're at eight where she's just like, yeah, he wasn't my dad anyway. I got a dad, you know? So she's just like, yeah, it sucks. She thinks about him every now and then, but she's found a way to, to use

She's healing the world at the tender age of six, huh? Yeah, no. So I tell you what, that kid dropped some bombs on me sometimes. Yeah. And I'm like, okay. It's incredible. It's incredible. Some of the things that these kids come out with, my, my oldest is four and she'll pick up on when I'm struggling a little bit with my mental health. Like I've been going through a little bit of burnout lately, just with like my work closing down at the end of the year and like job stress and all of that

But this isn't about me, so real quick. But she'll notice when my balance is off and she'll like come and sit with me and like stroke my arm and like look up at me and be like, I love you daddy. And I'm like, don't do this now, cause I'll cry. They just know, they just know when you need something and it sucks that once you become adults, a lot of people lose that intuition. Yeah. I realized a lot of people forget what it was like to be a kid.

Carter (52:28.918)

Yeah, and I don't know maybe because of the severity of my childhood like I remember all of it so I can remember being a kid so Sometimes if I some days some days are just weirder than others some days I just have a tone and I don't know if you could tell from my voice like this is just how it is So it's just kind of dry, you know So it's kind of hard to know if I'm being honest or not honest if I'm being serious or or not so if I get more assertive with my tone it kind of sounds like I got a toad and But sometimes I'll say

to them, to my kids and the way it comes out, like I almost hear it and I go, ooh, like that stung me and I flip and I go, hey, I'm so sorry. Totally did not mean that to sound how I did, you know, or like, I'm pretty mad at you. That's why my voice is raised, you know, but like do better. I say way more than that, but you know, like I, you know, sometimes and sometimes mommy has to apologize.

Mummies and daddies have to apologize. I like gosh, I... It's something that I talk about constantly and it's something that I implement daily because nobody's perfect and the fact that our kids get to see us make mistakes and own our mistakes and honor our mistakes and then apologize is probably the best piece of parenting you can actually do. That's a surefire way to make sure that your kids can grow up resilient and confident and well adjusted and somewhat balanced. It's

Just them saying that you're not fucking perfect. We're all humans. Yeah. It's weird because, you know, a lot lot of older parents of the older generations, you know, are like, you're too soft on your kids or you're too that. And go, really? And I just like turn around and go, hey. And every single one of my kids goes, what? And looks at me because I've explained to them, I don't want to raise my voice at you. So if you don't want to hear me raise my voice, don't make me ask you a hundred times.

If you hear me speak, listen, or else my voice will get higher because I'm raising my voice because I have a feeling that you're not hearing me. And if you're not giving me your attention and showing me that you're hearing me naturally, as I tell them, as you do, your voice becomes higher because you're not being heard. So, you know, don't make me, don't make me say it a hundred times and my voice won't get louder. That's just how that's going to

Carter (54:51.266)

You know, it's a give and take. Our youngest was like, mom, dad, like, could you, we used to raise our voices a lot more until our youngest we have every now and then we'll do like a family meeting. And we, as parents ask the kids, what could we do better? Like what's something that you need from us that maybe we are not giving you? We haven't given you, you know, sometimes it's don't be on your phone so much, mom. Don't be on Tik Tok so much. I'm like, well, Tik Tok is kind of something I have to be on. It's kind of something that I'm doing, but I get it. Yeah, I can.

You know, I can cut back on that or but she was like, don't raise your voices. I don't don't like don't yell at it. Don't yell at me. And we're like, OK, we can definitely we do need to work on that. We already knew that we but hearing her say it and her having the ability to say it really, OK, we will work on it. However, if you want us to do this for you, you need to do what we ask you to do when we ask. You know, it's simple give and take.

They're in a relationship with us. We're in a relationship with them. Relationships require work from both sides. Yeah. And that's, that's kind of how we go about that parenting style is we have a relationship. If I'm going to do the work on my end, I need you to do the work on your end. Otherwise it's not fair. Yeah. No, granted. No, shouldn't yell at our kids. I could totally get that, but you get my point. Sometimes it needs to happen

I mean yelling and stuff like that when it becomes a constant everyday thing that's when it's you know not healthy but. There's times and places for feeling 100 % yeah if my if two year old with now three year old boy. It's his one year old sister I'm gonna fucking yell I'm gonna say wait don't do that don't use your hand you never ever use your hands out of anger don't do it again.

And his immediate response will he'll fucking cry everywhere because he doesn't like when I yell, but he won't hit his sister again because he knows if I do this, dad's going to yell and I don't like it. So yelling is totally fine, but just if that's your go -to every single time for every little thing, that's when it's not good. And that's when it's going to create specific amounts of trauma in your kids when they get older. I agree. You know, I do something really.

Carter (57:15.33)

This is really not mainstream at all. you're the first person I'm saying it to out loud. Touched out exclusives. Yeah, touched out exclusive. I actually insult my children on a daily. just never do it out of anger. They give me insults that they hear at school and that hurt them. then so big word. I know it's bad. I'm sorry. But the word retarded. My son.

is on the spectrum. He has been called that so many times. When he was a first grader, it shattered and broke his soul until I started to use it. You've taken the pair away. Correct. I would be like, that was retarded or that seemed retarded. know, like I would I would find a way

to make the word a little bit more common. I would joke because he was like, well, I'm on the spectrum. And I was like, so and he's like, yeah. So now when he goes to school, they're like, you're retarded. And he is like, yeah. How do you know? Like he told you. He's like, how did you know? And, know, so it's like it's like taking away the power that we give word.

And I put it on my kids, I'm like, why? Like, you know, sister called brother is whatever. And he's all upset about it. But then I sit there and I look at, so I look at the sister and I say, hey, look, you shouldn't be talking to people like that. Like, I don't care if it's your brother. You shouldn't use those words on anybody else. Period. Or definitely don't use them as an insult or, you know, to...

to cause harm to somebody else. That's not what we do in this house. We do not use words to hurt others. And then I look over at my son and he gets a little reprimanded as well. And I go, why would you give her that kind of power? You know, she was trying to hurt you when she said that. Like, why would you do that? Why would you let her get you like this? You're absolutely killing it as a parent, Well done.

Carter (59:33.802)

It's a, you know, you creating a bunch of resilience. It's that's super cool. That's what I have tattooed on my wrist, actually resilient. Yeah. I think you, a picture of you should be in the dictionary next to it for sure. I don't know if I've ever had the pleasure of speaking to someone with as much resilience or fortitude as you do. It's, it's truly inspiring to see. And I'm really, really glad that you came on here and reached out and shared your story with me and the listeners.

I do understand that you're currently writing a book about your life. Is that right? That is true. I am writing a book. Awesome. Are you near finished? my, yes. No, no, no, I'm not. it's actually crazy. I don't know where I am because I have a lot of unfinished bits. I apologize for the booming in the background. It sounds like my daughter and dogs are running up and down. So my book is about from childhood.

to now. I am probably, I think I'm three chapters and if you want to call them chapters. It's a lot to write. It's hard to relive. The only, I've been offered to like have some like people ghost write, you know, some bits of it. But this is kind of like one of those, this is kind of like my eight mile moment, you know? So like, I'm kind of like, it has to come from me. It has to come from my hand. It has to be

my soul, my words, you know, it's just there are some bits that I'm just, even now, I mean, I'm only really two years, I call it recovery, I'm two years into recovery. So it's hard. It's gonna take a while. It's gonna take, it's probably gonna be a good year at least before I'm probably even in like, the real official editing. Yeah. I only ask because I'm super selfish and impatient and I want to read it like tomorrow.

But that's okay. I guess I'll have to wait. I could talk to my editor though and see if I can't send you at least an excerpt, but it might have to wait a little bit longer until, you know, she might want me to do more work because she's probably like, you haven't written in a month. And I'm like, I know. So you've actively got a book deal, huh? I do. have a, I have a literary agent, an editor and a brand. That's super cool. You've spun gold from hay.

Carter (01:02:00.712)

I figured out I so I actually got a lot of my my mentality from TV shows and books because there wasn't a good book that I didn't read where the heroine or the hero didn't have to one go through all of this bullcrap before they even had the heroic moment, you know, and like TV shows and stuff like it's always like that one person like Phoebe from Friends is my best because I watched Friends my whole life, which again,

really shows testament to my parenting. Friends is actually what raised me, but it was Phoebe and Chandler who really spoke to me because Phoebe had that crazy past, but the way she would just like talk about it was as if she was just talking about the weather, you know? And, she always had this like innate zeal about it kind of a thing. Like, yeah, so like there was a guy on the subway who spit in my mouth. Like, I don't

You know? Like, I lived in a box. super nonchalant, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just like whatever. And then, you know, then you have Chandler who also had like parental trauma and problems growing up in a really screwed up childhood and things like that. And he just took it and used it for comedy, you know, and then like Robin Williams. I just had all these really good role models that I was like, so, OK, I could live in my crap and constantly like even though I'm not in

place anymore in my life. I can still constantly be living. It's like trying to drive through your rear view mirror. You're gonna hit something eventually, know? Like shit's gonna happen. So that's kind of what I decided. But see, that's the thing. I made the choice. I'm going to be this pillar of resilience. I'm going to wear my trauma like a suit of armor, like a point of pride. Because sometimes I'll talk about

And then even I'm like, holy crap, that's right. I did go through that, you know, like, yeah, that's right. I'm a bad ass and I need to keep moving forward. So it's hard for me to sometimes connect with people who have trauma because, know, just based off of how I come off to people and things, they're like, there's no way there's, there's no way you went through all of that because of like, you're fine now. That's something you get a lot when you've been through some stuff. Like we were like,

Carter (01:04:19.746)

But you seem so fine. You seem so normal. I'm like, how do you expect me to be? The people that say that sort of shit that don't really understand it though, at the end of the day. And the fact that, you know, you're writing the book and you've reached out to me to come on and tell your story, which I'm, I'm super honored by the way, you know, there's a million and one mental health podcasts out there and you chose little old Australian me. Yeah, why not? That's pretty cool.

Well, I like what you're about. You know, I've seen your stuff. Clea was the one who told me like she was on your podcast. She referred she like she's like, got to reach out to this guy like he needs to talk to you. You need to talk to him. And I was like, yeah, no, totally. I love podcasts. You know, I love sharing my story. I love getting it out there because it one, it needs to be out there to there's one person somewhere out

who absolutely 100 % needs to see my story, see my life, and see who I am today so that way they know it's all on them. Like fuck everybody else. Like less, like you know, I'm not medicated, but I manage. I wouldn't say that I'm fully functional, but I function. I don't need, I can take control. You can, you just have to do the hard work

Sometimes people need like I was in therapy. I did therapy. did talk therapy. I did dialectical behavioral cognitive behavioral. I did a lot of therapy. I didn't do it for a long time, but I've never been that type of person because of my upbringing. I only need you for a certain amount of time to help me. And then once I get to that point, I'm done with you. know, medical professionals go. Yeah. It's kind of like saying, you know, I've got my shit together.

And when someone says I've got my shit together, you kind of picture it as all neat and tidy. having your shit together can just be a fucking messy pile in the corner of your room. Good enough can be good enough. I can tell you where my watch is. It's on the left side on the floor and in my closet underneath my husband's old army boot. I haven't picked it up yet. That's it. I'm all meant, figuratively speaking, having our shit together.

Carter (01:06:42.75)

Is that just an Australian saying? Have you heard that saying before? I've got my shit together. Yeah. Okay. Cool. I was like, I didn't know if it was translating. I was just being funny. Okay. No, I don't have a watch. It's on the dresser. think. I don't know. I have more junk drawers in my house than I have organized drawers. yeah. I think all of my drawers are junk drawers pretty much. I've, I've got drawers that are four things specifically. Like I've got an underwear drawer, but you can.

bet that there's like 10 other things that aren't underwear in there that I don't know. It's like I just fucking pushed him in. That's a job for tomorrow me. And that was like four years ago. Tomorrow literally never comes. So is there anything that you want to throw out into the world to end on? Two things, two quotes that were said to me that pushed me through. One was it could either make you or break you, it's your choice. And the other one is a quote

a poem and maybe just remind the few that if ill of us, they speak that we are all who stand between the monsters and the weak. I like it. I love that. Do know what poem that is? It's a poem called Between the Monsters and the Weak, Michael Marks, October, 2021. Awesome. All right. Well, I will definitely look at that a bit further. Les, thank you so much for your time and your honesty and sharing your journey and just being

I know I'm just a person that lives across the world that you've never talked to up until today, but I'm incredibly proud of you for being where you are and still being amongst the living after just wading through endless piles of shit. It's truly a testament to your resilience and your character. Thank you. Thank you. I don't know how to take

Thank you, cuz compliments are not something I'm good at. Yeah, it makes your skin crawl a bit. It does. All right, that's okay. You can go have a shower and wash all the nice stuff off now. Yeah, we go out there and ask people like, it went? Well, he's had a bunch of nice crap. Yeah, I feel fucking sick now. Yuck! Never talk to that guy again. He's too nice. I don't use that kind of nice. He didn't insult me once.

Carter (01:08:57.746)

you dumb bitch! There you go. Yes! My favorite word, even. I love to say bitch. It's a good word. It's a quality word. Alright, well, I'll leave it at that. Thank you again, and we will talk soon. Awesome, yeah, thank you. I'm so excited. Awesome, thank you. Bye.

To make it so my life's a better place If there's one thing I see Then your only thing is me Just knowing that I'm trying to make a change Can I put it all on me? Responsibilities And all the other nonsense coming By repeating the loop If there's one thing I know

Just knowing to let go Just knowing that I'm trying to make a change