Touched Out! A Mental Health Podcast for Parents

Laughter and Tears: Parenting an Autistic Child

Hosted By Carter Season 1 Episode 8

Welcome to Episode Eight of Touched Out: A Mental Health Podcast for Parents!

In this heartfelt episode, host Carter is joined by Martin, a dedicated father from Perth, Australia, who shares his touching story about his son Harrison's autism diagnosis and the challenges they faced. Martin opens up about the emotional turmoil of Harrison going completely nonverbal, the struggle of finding a supportive community, and the significant gaps in resources available for fathers after an autism diagnosis.

Trigger Warning: This episode includes discussions on autism, mental health struggles, and societal stigma. Listener discretion is advised.

Join us as Martin discusses:

From Silence to Resilience: Martin's emotional journey through his son Harrison's regression to nonverbal communication and the transformative impact on their family.

Finding Community and Support: The challenges Martin faced in building a supportive network and overcoming societal stigma surrounding autism.

Challenges in Support for Fathers: Insights into the lack of resources for fathers after an autism diagnosis and Martin's frustrations with ineffective seminars.

The Power of Early Intervention: The crucial role early intervention played in Harrison's development and Martin's experiences with unexpected milestones, like Harrison learning Russian from YouTube videos.

Impact on Family Dynamics: How Harrison's autism diagnosis affected Martin's marriage and the financial and emotional strains it brought.

Moments of Joy and Triumph: Heartwarming and humorous anecdotes that showcase Harrison's unique personality and the special bond he shares with Martin.

Addressing Societal Stigma: The importance of receiving a diagnosis, unlearning toxic masculinity, and embracing authenticity despite societal pressures.

Listen to Martin's inspiring journey and gain valuable insights and support for your own parenting challenges. Subscribe now to Touched Out for more heartfelt conversations and practical tips on navigating parenthood and mental health.

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[00:00:00] Carter: Trigger warning. The following podcast contains 

[00:00:03] Carter: explicit language and discussions of sensitive topics that some listeners may find distressing, including miscarriage, child abuse, mental health issues, and birth trauma. Listener discretion is advised. If you feel triggered or overwhelmed at any point, we encourage you to pause the episode and take care of yourself.

[00:00:19] Carter: Welcome back to another episode of the Touched Out podcast. I'm your host Carter, and today I have the pleasure of sitting down with Martin, a devoted father from Perth, Australia. In this heartfelt conversation, Martin opens up about his journey as a parent of a child with autism, shedding light on the The triumphs and everything in between Martin discusses the emotional turmoil he experienced when his son went completely nonverbal after previously using words such as mom, dad, down, et cetera, at the age of two and how he and his wife navigated those early days.

[00:00:54] Carter: We also discussed the struggles of finding support and the loss of support networks. To the [00:01:00] impact of an autism diagnosis on family dynamics, Martin's story is one of resilience, love, and hope, and it was truly an honor to have a chat with Martin on this episode. I hope you all enjoy it. Have a good 

[00:01:11] Intro: one.

[00:01:14] Intro: Today, we

[00:01:49] Carter: have Martin from Perth. Uh, Martin has. A eight year old son named Harrison. Uh, thank you so much for joining us, Martin. How are you going today?

[00:01:59] Carter: Really [00:02:00] good, 

[00:02:00] Martin: mate. Thanks for having me. This is incredible. We're really excited to be a part of this. I'm just excited for your podcast in general. I think it's really important that we have more of this material out in Australia.

[00:02:13] Martin: I think there's a lack of it. I'm really impressed that you've gone and. Mate, it's, it's incredible. 

[00:02:18] Carter: Oh, thank you so much. I really appreciate that. So first of all, let's delve into your life. Uh, give us the low down on, on yourself and your family. Sure. So, so today actually 

[00:02:31] Martin: is my 10 year wedding anniversary with my wife Ainsley.

[00:02:34] Carter: Oh, congratulations.

[00:02:35] Martin: Thanks mate. So we got married in 2013 and Harrison came along in 2015 and You know, like all new parents, we were so super happy about bringing him into our lives. And we did the classic thing of planning what his future was going to look like, and he was going to play soccer and he was going to do this and he was going to travel like his dad and listen to [00:03:00] pop punk like his dad and play in bands and dance like his mom.

[00:03:04] Martin: And he had, uh, he hits all the benchmarks for, for early development. And then quite early on, we noticed some, some regression and it was mainly in his speech and you know, as parents, when, when something is, is not quite right. And despite the fact that we would go to our friends and family for comfort and they would tell you things like, Oh, it's fine.

[00:03:27] Martin: You know, you're the same. You didn't speak until you were four. They would tell you all these lies to sort of comfort you and make you feel better. Uh, yeah, no, my, my nephew is really shy as well. We, we still recognize that, you know, something wasn't quite right there. So we went and started the process for an, for an early autism assessment.

[00:03:46] Martin: And it came back that Harrison hit the hallmarks for autism. And that was, I remember that being just emotionally one of the most difficult days of my life. Like having, having doctors confirm it that, cause I knew so [00:04:00] little about autism. No one in my family has autism. I'm a very visual person. The type of work that I do is very visual, very hands on.

[00:04:08] Martin: So. I struggled to understand what Harrison's future looked like. And that was a big issue for me. I guess if someone, if you went to a doctor and someone said, your child has a cold, you say, okay, well, what medicine do I give 

[00:04:22] Martin: them? 

[00:04:23] Martin: And for me, they were telling me that Harrison had this, uh, an illness or an impairment or whatever I was. Um, sort of processing that as, and I was like, okay, how do I fix it or how do I help it? What does he need because he was so young and obviously they couldn't tell me I, I struggled with that massively because you know, as parents, all we want to do is help our babies and when they have these struggles and they're not even, they're not able to tell you what they are.

[00:04:49] Martin: And the doctors won't commit to telling you what they are because in looking back now in fairness, how could they have possibly known? So yeah, it was, it was a really difficult time. Aside from [00:05:00] that, I started to get obviously very upset about it. My wife did as well for obvious reasons. But we still had to put on that brave face.

[00:05:08] Martin: A really strange thing happened where around this time, basically all of our best friends had these amazing things happen in their lives and they all moved overseas. So one, one friend moved to Melbourne. Uh, another friend, I'm not trying not to name names here, but another friend moved to America.

[00:05:25] Martin: Another friend moved to the UK. Another friend moves to Ireland. And within like about eight months, our entire support network of friends had just I'd gone, they'd left WA completely. So we found ourselves in a situation where it was our closest friends had kind of dispersed. It was just my wife and I, um, we still had our family here who were, who were incredible, but it's not always that easy to open up to those people, I suppose.

[00:05:49] Martin: And especially. Being a man and men typically are pretty crap at talking about their emotion, 

[00:05:56] Carter: especially with family as well. Yeah, you tend to find, [00:06:00] especially, you know, in like a friendship group or a community that's, you know, focused on music, which I can see you've got your guitars in the background.

[00:06:08] Carter: We've had a little discussion surrounding our love for music prior to recording. You know, you. You find those types of friends that have those similar interests that, uh, you tend to be able to open up a lot more and a lot easier than say you would be able to with your father. So, yeah, your entire, your entire support network and your entire community just up and up and moved away after, you know, what quite possibly could have been, you know, the worst news that you've ever received to date.

[00:06:34] Carter: That must have been absolutely devastating for you, not only to try and process. Your own emotions whilst, you know, mourning or grieving the life that you anticipated Harrison to have and having, you know, next to nobody apart from your family and, you know, your wife to bounce your thoughts and your feelings off.

[00:06:56] Carter: Yeah, it must have been horrible, man. It must have been a very, very horrible feeling. [00:07:00] 

[00:07:00] Martin: So it wasn't at the time, 

[00:07:02] Carter: but 

[00:07:03] Martin: looking back, you realize how sort of lonely you were, it's hard to, in the moment, realize that, oh, I'm not talking to anyone, or I'm not handling these emotions. It's only when you look back retrospectively, I think, that you go, Oh yeah, I was doing really bad back then.

[00:07:18] Martin: Wasn't I? I cut off communication with a lot of like friends of friends, uh, and I stopped going to gigs and I was embarrassed to go to, uh, like family kids party, things like that, because I had the only child with autism at the time. So Harrison, cause he was, he was so young and he couldn't communicate the way that he would express frustration was he would, he would bang his head on the floor and that was quite.

[00:07:45] Martin: It was really confronting and almost sickening because sometimes he would do it really bad on like a tile floor and you didn't know where it would come from. And then, then you start getting those, those looks from other parents and then they're not [00:08:00] judging you, but you think they are. And you feel like the sort of room is closing in around you.

[00:08:05] Martin: And it's like, Oh, only my child is doing this. Why is that? And then you start, then you go home. And And then you're upset and you're at home and you think, this isn't fair. Why did this happen to me? Why did this happen to my son? And it comes, the whole circle continues. How do I help him? There's no medicine for this.

[00:08:21] Martin: Why can't I help my child? And you feel that guilt as a parent. And it's, it's kind of a vicious cycle. I was never, I just want to, want to clarify that, you know, look, looking back, I was so happy for, for all these people in my life, making these incredible decisions for their own families. But at the same time, silently, I was, I was suffering in my own, in my own circumstance.

[00:08:44] Martin: Which, you know, I don't want to come across as selfish, but it's just, it's really hard to see other children flourish while watching your own child's struggle. I always found, and that gave me an insane sense of guilt as well. Watching parents. [00:09:00] Communicate with their child asking or a child walking up and saying, mom, can I have a sandwich like for years?

[00:09:06] Martin: I never knew when Harrison hungry tired of set in pain had a headache that that can be really difficult to yeah 

[00:09:12] Carter: I guess it's um, I guess all of those those feelings and emotions stem from a place of almost shame You know, you feel, you feel ashamed to have these emotions and feelings and, you know, a sense of mourning for a life that you thought your son would have and et cetera, et cetera.

[00:09:30] Carter: And, you know, watching parents interact with their kids as any normal parent would with any, I wouldn't say normal kid, a neurotypical kid. And, you know, you feel jealousy and you feel anger and resentment and all of these really negative emotions. You sit there and think like you're taking that for granted when in actual fact, they're not taking it for granted at all.

[00:09:50] Carter: They're just living their life and you know, we don't know their circumstances in any facet. But when you have such a great amount of [00:10:00] internalized shame, it's, So much easier and so much more comforting to yourself to place the blame on other people, especially other people that you just don't know and don't have to consider their feelings.

[00:10:11] Martin: Yeah, I mean, I, I would never, I just, I would never, I never blamed anyone. Never blamed Harrison, myself, you know, I, I knew that people were doing their best to try to accommodate us by saying, Hey, come to this party. But if I was honest, things like that, like I just flat out. Yeah. Didn't want to do, I was too, too worried about, you know, Harrison having a meltdown or yeah, hurting himself.

[00:10:38] Martin: He went through this, he went through this phase where he really, he was only three or four, but he hated babies because he didn't like the loud noises and a baby is a ticking time bomb. At any second, it would just start screaming at the top of its lungs and that would really trigger Harrison. So he was only a baby himself and he [00:11:00] would, his reaction would be not to lash out, but to just sort of like push past the baby and run away from it and potentially knock it over.

[00:11:06] Martin: And it seemed like he was not fighting, but being rough to just get away from it. And then that was confronting because again, you feel like the daggers from other parents, like did he just push my baby? It's like, well, no, he's just, 

[00:11:19] Carter: he's scared of it actually. Yeah. There's definitely a lot of what ifs and buts and all of those things to navigate in terms of existing in society when your child has a special needs.

[00:11:30] Carter: Looking back now, how do you feel you navigated the early days of your child's autism diagnosis? Did you. feel like because you didn't have much of a understanding of autism itself. Did you find yourself doing a bunch of research on it or, you know, what were your, what were your self care routines in the early days?

[00:11:51] Carter: Well, so, so looking 

[00:11:52] Martin: back, I definitely know that I did really badly. I didn't handle the emotional side. I don't think [00:12:00] I was able to fully vent. I guess I fell into a stereotypical husband role where I tried to be Too emotionally available for my wife, so putting on that strong persona saying it's okay.

[00:12:13] Martin: Things would be okay I didn't want to show weakness in front of her because she was obviously struggling as well She had her own her own issues So I tended to bottle bottle things up and it would come out in the strangest ways like I'd be Driving to work and, uh, I would just, without even realizing it, my tears running down my face because maybe because a sad song came on the radio or a podcast I was listening to mentioned autism, it would come out in so many strange ways.

[00:12:39] Martin: And there was a real, I found there's a real lack of resources available to. To parents who'd received a diagnosis. So the first thing that happened was we got a diagnosis and they gave us this booklet and inside the book, it was a pamphlet for a course for parents who had just received an autism diagnosis in their child.

[00:12:57] Martin: So I thought, Oh, great. There's a, there's some support available. So we had to [00:13:00] book in to this little, uh, it was like a seminar thing. And we drove out about two weeks later to go and see it. And there was, there was just a room and there's about maybe 10 other couples And no one was really speaking. And then someone came in and just said, Oh, hi, I'm blah, blah, blah.

[00:13:16] Martin: From I can't remember where she was from. Take a seat. I'm just going to play this quick video. And she sat us all down and put on this instructional video, which went for about 20 minutes and then it finished and she basically went, well, thanks for coming. Just good luck. Yeah, right. It was like, Oh, wow. Is that, is that what we get a 10 minute PowerPoint presentation basically on, you know, nothing.

[00:13:37] Martin: There was no real subject matter, no context. And then. I started looking around for, you know, what resources were out there for for dads. There was, I always found that there was a lot of like moms groups and there was a lot of, yeah, a lot of things focused around moms. Not a lot out there for dads one.

[00:13:54] Martin: One guy at the Autism Association of WA started a group called My Time for Dads, [00:14:00] and I went to the first couple of those. And they were great. They were essentially we would catch up at a, at a pub or a restaurant, maybe a burger joint just to get dads together to come and have a chat and talk about their experience.

[00:14:14] Martin: Some dads would bring the kids, some wouldn't. It was, um, that, that was helpful in a way, but at the same time, it was, Oh, I don't really know these people. I know that they have similar experiences to me, but it's still a little bit hard to, to, to open up to randoms. You know? So, yeah, that was kind of, I still think that there's not a lot of resources available for, for 

[00:14:36] Carter: especially, especially men, especially dads.

[00:14:39] Martin: I think so. 

[00:14:40] Carter: In the mental health realm on any and all topics related to mental health diagnosis, support, things like that, men are still so incredibly underrepresented. Even this podcast, you know, I was looking at my statistics on Spotify and Apple and all of them before I was looking at my analytics. So, And for podcast, that [00:15:00] is.

[00:15:00] Carter: Hosted by a man, the viewership is still 92 percent female. So, you know, I've, I've been joining like men's mental health groups on Facebook, trying to, you know, gain support or gain, you know, guest interest, things like that. And it seems to be that I am. Hitting brick walls at almost every turn, you know, all of those, all of those advocacy groups and stuff like that.

[00:15:26] Carter: There's a strict, no self promotion policies, you know, I've messaged the moderators and everything like that saying, you know, this isn't really self promotion. This is a really important thing that I am trying to get together and I'm trying to show up for my community as a man and trying to get other men on board who are having these discussions to other people.

[00:15:50] Carter: In Facebook groups that are, you know, like 80, 000, 90 members, uh, 80, 90, 000 members, and they're just saying, no, no, it's self promotion. [00:16:00] I said, it's, you know, it's not for profit. I'm, I'm just, I'm trying to make a change. And yeah, I'm just hitting roadblocks every step of the way. So I think, you know, because the podcast is still in the, the really, really early, early, Stages, I'm going to have to rely incredibly heavily on word of mouth to get some more male representation.

[00:16:19] Carter: So we can really, really start the, uh, the conversation and make some meaningful change in society. 

[00:16:24] Martin: Yeah. So sometimes you might find a group, but like it's in. It's in Newcastle city and you're in Perth or, you know, like there are things out there, but there's not a lot and there's not a lot. I've noticed like nationally, nothing that I could find anywhere.

[00:16:37] Martin: And sometimes it's, it's trying to find what's right for you. Like I've, I'm a member of some of those dad groups. And sometimes there's a lot of, um, it's more just like guys sharing their funny stories. You know, like, Oh, look, check this out. My kid, um, drew on the walls today. And then we'll also go, Oh, I can't say, you know, it's not a lot of, Hey guys, I'm really struggling today.

[00:16:56] Martin: I had a bad day because of this. And how are you guys going with school? But [00:17:00] I see mom's group doing this all the time. Yeah. I 

[00:17:02] Carter: found that a lot of the dad groups that I've, um, I've joined in on recently, it's, it's kind of like 80 percent comedy and light, lightheartedness. Yeah. Lots of names. Um, you know, there's a sprinkling of like what my, my kid did a little bit of like, you know, adoration, things like that.

[00:17:19] Carter: And then, you know, there's like the 5 percent dark side where it's just really like misogynistic and, you know, woman bashing. And it's just like, my wife says, So and so, and I don't know what to do. And like, yeah, yeah, you know, talking about their mental health, but for the wrong reasons. So, yeah, we've still got a really, really long way to go as a society.

[00:17:39] Carter: But, you know, this, this podcast hopefully will be one of those defining steps. If we give it time and I keep at it and keep chipping away, you know, one day I'll be able to get through the mountain, you know. It's going to take a lot of time and a lot of work, but you know, I'm going to keep showing up and I'll, I'll remain dedicated.

[00:17:56] Carter: Uh, anyways, back to you. Uh, so in the early days [00:18:00] of Harrison's diagnosis, you know, you said that you, you were busy showing up for the family and putting on your brave face and bottling your emotions, which obviously, you know, looking back now is. pretty unhealthy. If you're happy to talk about it, how did those early days of Harrison's diagnosis affect your marriage?

[00:18:16] Martin: So we've never, we've never wavered or faltered. We've both had very difficult days and stress, stress is horrible. You know, stress will make you moody and then you can misjudge someone's bad mood as being in a bad mood with you. And it's like, what have I done? It's like, you haven't done nothing. It's just, I'm upset today because of this.

[00:18:39] Martin: And then you, you end up Butting heads. So, so I can't say with any honesty that we didn't butt heads on occasion. I'm so lucky to have, to have met my wife. Like we genuinely are best friends. So we are incredible for each other. We, at the time I used to work, I used to work offshore, so I used to earn a good bit of money [00:19:00] and we kind of had, we had a pretty good lifestyle and then when Harrison got his diagnosis, we decided, well, I need to be at home and the money at home, just, it wasn't the same.

[00:19:10] Martin: So at the same time as we got an autism diagnosis. Sort of inadvertently added a lot of financial pressure onto ourselves and that tended to Compile and make things a bit more difficult. So all of a sudden we had problems paying bills on time We have problems running out of money the day before payday Which which we've never had before having to stretch our budget and those things are never good and there are so many people Who are way worse off than we are in that circumstance.

[00:19:38] Martin: And yeah, look, when I look back at those times, it's, we added all these unnecessary pressures on each other. Things like birthdays would come around, anniversaries would come around. Harrison's birthday would come around. We feel like, you know, we can't afford to buy this present. We have to get that present.

[00:19:54] Martin: Financial strain, as well as like dealing or not dealing with autism [00:20:00] really just made it more difficult than it had to be. Yeah. So we kind of made a rule where my wife is the smart one. She handles, she handles the finance. So it's like, I remember specifically having a conversation where I said, look, I'm struggling at the moment.

[00:20:16] Martin: I'm struggling with, with this. I can't handle the pressure of, of the bills and all these other things going on. Can you take care of the finance thing? I'll take care of the, I'll take care of the work. I'll take care of literally everything else. So we kind of split things up. So. That's kind of still last to this day.

[00:20:36] Martin: I have no idea what bills we pay. Money just comes in my wife. It goes away. You have this much to spend. 

[00:20:43] Carter: Cool. Yeah, yeah, my wife and I are exactly the same. She, she's handled the finances since we were together for, I think, six months into our relationship when we, we had the talk about, is this a serious thing?

[00:20:55] Carter: Is this a forever thing? You know, what are our hopes and dreams? Do we want to own a house? We [00:21:00] want to build a house. We don't buy a house and renovate everything like that. And, you know, at the time I was like 30 grand in debt because of my under undiagnosed ADHD and just being fucking horrible with my impulse buying and spending.

[00:21:11] Carter: And so, so we, we agreed straight away that she deal with the finances. I went to work the next day and I went to HR and I changed the bank details over to her and it has remained the same since. And I really, really credit her for everything that we have today. You know, we've, we managed within. Within two years of meeting, we were building a house, pregnant with our first, uh, I was basically debt free within two years of meeting her, you know, absolute absolute warrior of a woman.

[00:21:41] Carter: Man can't fault her as far as, you know, self discipline, uh, in the face of, you know, the things that she actually wants and the aspirations and dreams that she has. So, you know, shout out to the, to the strong women in our lives that keep our shit in check. And keep, keep our wallets 

[00:21:58] Martin: justifiably empty. [00:22:00] Mate, my, my love language is to just give people gifts.

[00:22:04] Martin: So like, if my wife's upset, I'm like, Oh my God, you need like a new, like, can I buy you something? Do you want a present? Let's go out for dinner. That's how I, yeah, that's how I treat people. I, and the same with Harrison. If he's had a bad day at school, I want to go out and buy him a toy. It's like, no, you got him a new toy literally every day for the last four days.

[00:22:21] Martin: Oh, geez, 

[00:22:21] Carter: Martin, I'm feeling a little sad today, mate. What do you want to buy me?

[00:22:27] Carter: Yeah, 

[00:22:28] Martin: look, having that, having that conversation with Ainsley, there was probably too much of that bottling things up again, coming forward to it and saying, I'm struggling, I'm not handling this. We need to set, A boundary, maybe, about the pressures that we're both going through. Once we realized like what we're both capable of dealing with and how we, how we can respond, things just became so much easier.

[00:22:48] Martin: Well, you know, 

[00:22:50] Carter: easy, let's just say easier. So in your guest application, you did note down that you read a statistic that said 60 to 70 percent of parents who [00:23:00] receive an autism diagnosis for their child get divorced. After reading that, how much of that information did you take on board? And did you let those statistics affect your mental health further?

[00:23:12] Martin: I mean, yes, that was, that was terrifying to hear. You know, we were, we were newly married. Harrison was only a baby. And then you get this diagnosis and a doctor tells you to your face. You know, there's a good chance that you guys are going to get divorced. This is going to be really awful. And I almost feel like saying, fuck you.

[00:23:28] Martin: No, we won't. Like you can't, don't tell me I'm going to divorce my wife. It was, I think that was the most, one of the most upsetting parts of the early diagnosis. My wife got really upset by that as well. So I'll tell 

[00:23:39] Carter: you what, doctors may be book smart, but sometimes doctors just. Have such a fucking lack of emotional intelligence.

[00:23:46] Carter: It's truly astounding. 

[00:23:47] Martin: Yeah. Yeah. That's not what you want to hear. 

[00:23:50] Carter: No, that's the last thing you want to hear. 

[00:23:52] Martin: Just letting you guys know that as, as awful as this is, it's going to get way worse and you might not even be together. And yeah, the [00:24:00] worst possible time. I mean, statistics are statistics, but you don't, you don't want to become one of them.

[00:24:04] Martin: So we discussed it very early on and it annoyed me. That I had to make that commitment to my wife to say, I am not going to divorce you because of this illness. I promise you I'm not going anywhere. And it annoyed me that I had to even, you know, say that again or say it ever. I'm married. She's the love of my life.

[00:24:23] Martin: Like it's, so yeah. And, and this is the thing, there are so many people who sadly have gone through a divorce and we, we know several of them who do such incredible jobs, but that's just not what we wanted for ourselves. I don't think anybody really does. 

[00:24:41] Ad: Stay with us. We'll be right back.

[00:24:46] Carter: We are proud to announce our children's book, Girls Can Wear Pants Too, is up for pre order. Head to the podcast Instagram and hit the bio link to sign up for pre order today.

[00:24:59] Carter: Yeah, I think [00:25:00] marriage in itself is a full time job. You know, there's so many different aspects and you know, 50 percent of your marriage is not in your control because that 50 percent is an entirely separate entity to you. While your lives intersect every minute of every day, at the end of the day, You can't control what the other person is thinking or feeling and just sometimes, you know, a lack of, of really healthy pillars in a relationship, such as, you know, like a strong ability to communicate for whatever reason, it really just, it can lead to such, such horrible outcomes, such heartbreaking outcomes that neither of you ever dreamed of.

[00:25:37] Martin: Yeah, you know, if we, if we just recap, you know, we had the, we had the diagnosis issues, we had the financial problems. If you want to add to that, you know, marriage problems, uh, and a potential breakup. 

[00:25:48] Carter: A lack of community support with all of your friends moving away. You know, you guys had the odds pretty stacked against you from the get go.

[00:25:55] Carter: So to see you here now, uh, with Harrison as an eight year old. Yeah, so many people go through it [00:26:00] as well. So Harrison's now eight. 

[00:26:01] Ad: Yeah. 

[00:26:01] Carter: You guys have run the gauntlet. You've come out on the other side. Can you Tell me about Harrison's development since his diagnosis. How is he doing now? What does his future look like?

[00:26:13] Carter: Yeah. So I'll do 

[00:26:15] Martin: my best to do this without getting emotional. 

[00:26:18] Carter: Mate, let the tears 

[00:26:18] Martin: flow. I'll have a cry with you. Uh, We are so blessed to have Harrison in our lives. He, um, so I can not sing the praises of early intervention enough. I think that was so key getting the early diagnosis, having those difficult conversations and recognizing that something isn't quite right.

[00:26:40] Martin: There is no problem. 

[00:26:43] Martin: Asking for help and getting help. So we got the diagnosis and we went straight to the autism association of WA. Went to the Fremantle branch there. First day was, was difficult because it was our first time, you know, leaving our baby alone. It was like first day blues, but. [00:27:00] Two years ahead of what other parents would get it or like a year ahead of kindy and then as the week went on, it got better and he started to form relationships.

[00:27:08] Martin: So Harrison used to have when he was a baby about about 30 words. And then he, he regressed back to having zero. So when, from being able to say mom, dad, up food, those, those sorts of things, just went back to screaming, grunting, frustration, babbling, and that type of thing. These days, Harrison, he's in year three now, he is fully fluent, he talks all the time.

[00:27:35] Martin: We, we have this little in joke between my wife and I. Remember being so upset that when he couldn't communicate. Nowadays, it's at the point where like he won't shut up. And we have a little joke where we look at each other and sort of say, like, shut up. It's, it's, it's personal to us because we prayed for this day.

[00:27:53] Martin: You know, we begged for this to happen and it's, it's here. And how lucky are we that we get to say, Oh, shut [00:28:00] up. Just be quiet for a minute, mate. Like give it a rest. So he still has his, his, uh, his little quirks. We kind of say that living with Harrison is a bit like, Living with an alien, the way that he, uh, processes information and the way he mimics television and movies, and he is just so funny and absolutely just the best thing that has ever happened to us.

[00:28:20] Martin: So early on, when he started, when his language started picking up again, we thought he was doing a lot of babbling. He was. Using words like cinny and zolty. And then I was asking him one day if he was, if he was hungry and he was saying, he's going, yeah, zolty, zolty, pointing at something in the food cupboard.

[00:28:37] Martin: I'm like, what are you saying? What could that possibly mean? There is nothing that even sounds remotely like what you're saying. And I realized after a while he was pointing at a banana. So I said, ah, it's like this, this is what you want to, yeah, zolty. Picked it off and okay, so the word for banana is salty and I was at work one day next to a colleague who was from Russia and there was some bananas on the table and I went salty and he went, how do you know Russian?

[00:28:59] Martin: I was like, I'm [00:29:00] sorry, it turns out that Harrison had been watching all these Russian YouTube cartoons. And he was learning language from there. So all of a sudden we knew that that's Sydney was blue and Jolte was yellow and Perpigny was purple. And we knew all these different things. And then we realized that he was counting from one to 10 in Russian.

[00:29:18] Martin: So early on, we had to like, start picking up what, what he was pointing at. And then, so yeah, that was very early. And then we're like, okay, we might have to stop him watching those videos. And then his language, English, started coming back really strong. Foxbeast 

[00:29:31] Carter: Harrison is actually a KGB spy. 

[00:29:34] Martin: He's a, he's a Russian sleeper agent.

[00:29:35] Carter: Yeah, straight up. Straight up. Gonna sell that one to, uh, to Fox Pictures. 

[00:29:44] Martin: So my, my Russian mate, uh, I would bring in videos of him saying things. And I was like, I was like, Hey, what's, what's he saying here? And he's like, Oh, Brett, he's saying Brett. I'm like, you are joking. And then he would say things like, Oh, well done.

[00:29:57] Martin: Well done. Comrade Harrison. Very, very cool. [00:30:00] Yeah. That's, that's cool. Having a Russian person 

[00:30:02] Carter: call 

[00:30:03] Martin: you comrade. That's yeah. 

[00:30:05] Carter: Wow. How astounding that, uh, that Harrison was able to, to learn those things from, uh, from the YouTube videos. I'm finding my son mimicking. American accents from, from the screen time.

[00:30:16] Martin: Yeah, you get that a lot. Hey, 

[00:30:17] Carter: yeah, even even in neurotypical kids, you know, who have a little more than average screen time, I found that there was a lot of mimicking of the American accents because that's, you know, that's what they're engaged in at the time. You know, you've got the bright colors and the pretty things and that's what they learn.

[00:30:33] Martin:

[00:30:35] Carter: don't know what else he watches, but Harrison, 

[00:30:37] Martin: he has just become the most polite child in the world. Like he's constantly receiving those, you know, good behavior awards in school and politeness awards because he's always, it's always, may I please go outside? May I please do some drawing? He is super polite.

[00:30:52] Martin: It's brilliant. It's like, we're not, we're polite. We're not overly polite. We're not, uh, the type of parents who is like, you didn't say please. [00:31:00] He's just developed this way. 

[00:31:01] Carter: Yeah, that's great. I am the type of parent that really puts a lot of stock in good manners. Um, yeah, sure. My kids have absolutely perfect manners when they are not inside this house, when they are in the confines of, you know, their own safe space.

[00:31:17] Carter: No pleases or thank yous at all. Well, like, you know, initially, 

[00:31:23] Martin: oh, so when Harrison would say like banana, you know, like we were so happy that he was just using language for us to then go, you didn't say please. It's just so counterproductive. It doesn't really matter, does it? Yeah. No, it's like, oh, you asked for something amazing.

[00:31:37] Martin: We'll work on the politeness later, 

[00:31:39] Carter: but he just, uh, I'm 

[00:31:41] Martin: not sure how it has developed that way. He's incredible. He's so funny. 

[00:31:45] Carter: So you were talking before about in jokes that you and your wife had, you did make another point about in jokes within the autism community that people outside of it may not appreciate.

[00:31:55] Carter: Do you want to delve into that a little bit more? 

[00:31:57] Martin: It's funny because I was, I was at [00:32:00] a kid's play center on the weekend and obviously Harrison's a lot more independent now. And I think. As a parent, like we've all heard of the term gaydar where people who are within like the LGBT community can recognize other people within that community.

[00:32:14] Martin: I think as parents, we kind of develop a sort of autism radar and like, we have this ability to like be at school and just like diagnose other people's children who aren't, you know, really diagnosed like, oh, wow, that's. That's an ADHD child, and that's an autism child, and that's a red flag, and that's a red flag.

[00:32:32] Carter: Yeah, my wife and I do it to this day with, with adults as well. Uh, we'll have a discussion with someone, you know, in the community or something like that, and then behind closed doors, I'll be like, hey, did you pick up on that? And my wife will be like, yeah, he's neuro spicy as fuck. Did you notice that he did not once look us in the eyes and was like stepping on his toes the entire time.

[00:32:54] Carter: It's amazing how used to those markers you get that you just start noticing it in so many [00:33:00] different places and you start to realize how broad the autism spectrum truly is. Yeah. And how, as far as I'm concerned, literally everyone in the world is, you know, it's a spectrum. So everyone sits somewhere on that spectrum, but without being a part of the autism community, you don't have that knowledge and you don't have that understanding of, of it actually literally tangibly being a spectrum.

[00:33:24] Martin: Yeah, 

[00:33:24] Carter: and 

[00:33:25] Martin: it's like trying to have those conversations with parents without upsetting them or without coming because it is a difficult topic, but even just saying things like, like, oh, Harrison used to do that or Harrison has a friend who does that. Like openly saying to them, have you considered, you know, someone or seeing a doctor or it was just like, yeah, he's, he's crazy.

[00:33:47] Martin: He's always running into things and trashing rooms 

[00:33:50] Carter: like, oh, okay. Yeah. I, um, it's a hard one because, you know, people who, who haven't lived it for any type of reason, you know, if they [00:34:00] don't have any family or friends that have autism or if they, you know, they don't have any children with autism or anything like that, they still see it as something very negative.

[00:34:08] Martin: It is still a massive stigma and it's like a very dirty word and it is, yeah. I think, you know, I didn't like hearing it at the beginning and it's only as, you know, I've sort of come to terms with things and it's become a bigger part of the, of my life. Not just the autism community, but the wider disability community and met people in similar circumstances that have come to accept it.

[00:34:30] Martin: And it's understanding that it is a spectrum and literally everybody is on it in some way, whether almost not at all, or very specifically in one corner of that spectrum, you could argue that people who like collecting things. Uh, on the spectrum and that sort of stigma around it and thinking of autism as a dirty word really just needs to end the worst thing that can happen.

[00:34:55] Martin: If your child receives an autism or an ADD or an ADHD [00:35:00] diagnosis, is that you open you and your family up to support. You open yourself up to potentially funding from the NDIS to go and get some support from a trained professional who has. Skills or has tools that you might not have access to, to help you learn skills, how to deal with this or how to teach your child, how to deal with their frustrations or improve on their handwriting or things that they could be dealing with in life.

[00:35:26] Martin: But yeah, some people just don't want to be associated with it for whatever reason. Yeah. Like, no, I can't face up to the fact that there could be potentially something wrong with my child. And that it's such a negative way of way of thinking about it because your child might need support and support is available.

[00:35:41] Carter: Yeah, I think it really is a hard one because, you know, now that now that I've had my autism diagnosis, I've always been about, you know, letting my feelings out from a young age. And, you know, there was a lot of male friends that I lost because they would just be like, you're a pussy, you know, shut up with that shit.

[00:35:57] Carter: I don't want to hear about your feelings and all of this. And [00:36:00] it wasn't until I lived in a real place of shame for being. That way, but I never had, I never had any sort of filter. I did have a lot of internal struggles as far as like, you know, toxic masculinity and things like that goes just because of the lessons that I was brought up with, you know, the whole, like, you know, men don't show their emotions and, you know.

[00:36:19] Carter: Keep your chin up and man up and all of that stuff. So it took a lot of me unlearning that behavior that just wasn't serving me well. And I am 36 years old now, you know, living my truth and telling the whole world I am autistic and not really caring too much about their thoughts on me. And, and letting them, letting them, project their insecurities or shame or anything like that onto me.

[00:36:47] Carter: You know, I'm living my truth. I am by and large a happy, caring, loving person who has a lot to offer. And if, if they're going to feel insecure about that, then that's just not [00:37:00] people that I need in my circle or in my life. 

[00:37:02] Ad: Absolutely. 

[00:37:02] Carter: Yeah, it's, that's just how it is. And I feel horrible for those people because they unfortunately have had those ideals drummed into them so hard that they literally cannot see any other opinion or way of thinking.

[00:37:16] Martin: It's hard to unlearn. 

[00:37:17] Carter: It really is. It's, it's unlearn than it is to learn, mate. 

[00:37:21] Martin: Yeah. And that's where, you know, I suppose I got that bottle it up thing from, you know, like when, when I bottled up all that, all those emotions early on, it's kind of because it's that maybe that, um, stiff upper lip, be the man approach that you've, you've seen, you've learned from media and growing up and some people around you, you think like, that's your job.

[00:37:40] Martin: You just got to be tough and don't. Don't cry about it and don't talk about your feelings to, to your friends or just, you know, talk about sports. 

[00:37:51] Carter: Yeah, mate, I, I don't follow sports. Uh, I know absolutely nothing about cars and I always grew up feeling quite anxious [00:38:00] having ever to go to like parties with girlfriends at the time where there would be, you know, a group of men standing around the barbecue chatting about cars.

[00:38:06] Carter: I would, I'd be so fucking scared about it. I would find myself like watching car documentaries to do some research before I had to go to these parties. So I would at least be able to memorize lines from these car documentaries to have some input. Um, you know, I found myself once going to a barbecue and I was, you know, sitting around with, with the boys talking and drinking beer and whatnot.

[00:38:27] Carter: I was talking about cars and, um, 

[00:38:29] Ad: yeah, 

[00:38:30] Carter: I'd committed a line to memory and I straightened my back up and with, Nothing but 150 percent confidence go, I would absolutely love to get a Datsun 120Y and put a small block of the 8 in it. And, and about 8 of them go, Oh, fuck. Yeah, that'd be sick. And to this day, I don't, I don't have any understanding of what I said.

[00:38:53] Carter: And that has always stuck with me. And that's a massive part of masking. Yeah, 

[00:38:58] Martin: I realized again that what 

[00:38:59] Carter:

[00:38:59] Martin: was [00:39:00] doing was, Self sabotaging so friends would invite me to parties and because one thing that we sort of haven't mentioned is getting getting therapies for For your kids can be very expensive.

[00:39:12] Martin: So I felt bad, you know going to gigs spending 80 on a gig ticket But it's like that's money that could be going towards Towards Harrison's therapy. So I became a bit reclusive in that respect, stopped going to as many. And then because I wasn't coping well, emotionally, I would make up excuses of why I don't go to a party.

[00:39:30] Martin: And after a while, you know, the invitations to go to things starts drying up. And all of a sudden you're not invited to, to this gig or this formally like friend of a friend's. Party or whatever. And then there are a few people that, you know, always in your corner and always going to be, and they consistently invite you out, invite you to, there's one friend in particular who I don't think I saw them for about two years.

[00:39:51] Martin: Would consistently invite me to everything, whether it was a barbecue at their place or a New Year's Eve party. And for ridiculous [00:40:00] reasons now, when I think about it, I would not go because I didn't feel comfortable people asking me a question, like, how are things going? Because I couldn't answer them without lying because really I wasn't managing my emotions problem.

[00:40:13] Ad: But 

[00:40:14] Martin: just the fact that this person kept sending that invite and every couple of weeks or months, there would just be a little invite in my, in my inbox saying, Hey, there's a party. We were thinking about this and we were thinking about you and we want you to come. It meant so much. And I had such insane guilt when I just, I would at the very last minute come up with an excuse why I couldn't come.

[00:40:32] Martin: Oh, sorry. This came up. Harrison's sick. Tell a lie. Okay. But it just goes back to, it's, if I had of. Spoken to someone, looked for maybe some professional help, spoken to a psychologist or found like a men's health group, someone to communicate with. I could have managed that entire scenario better and I wouldn't have been managing this process on my own.

[00:40:53] Martin: And it could have been such a more enjoyable time in my life. Um, but you know, hindsight is 20, 20, [00:41:00] isn't it? 

[00:41:00] Carter: Certainly is, you know, Martin, I may be, you know, eight years late to the party or six years late and Harrison was diagnosed at two years old. Correct. 

[00:41:09] Ad: Yeah. 

[00:41:09] Carter: In the, in the words of, uh, the heroic Blink 182 mate, a day later, buck short, but, uh, you know, we've met now from this day on, I'll be in your corner, mate.

[00:41:19] Carter: And I'm always, always here to, uh, to bounce ideas or feelings off. You've got a friend in me, mate. 

[00:41:26] Martin: Yeah. Likewise, mate. Um, that's one thing that I've been trying to make myself, uh, over the last couple of years is just trying to recognize the symptoms that I had in my own friends, keeping an eye out on, you know, Uh, or the people who are starting families or just you don't see as often and trying to reach out and just checking in on people, seeing how they're going, see if they're needing anything, reminding them that, that you're here because I definitely had that and, uh, it can be so important.

[00:41:52] Martin: It can be life saving 

[00:41:53] Carter: for a lot 

[00:41:54] Martin: of 

[00:41:54] Carter: people. Yep, 100 percent mate. I think, you know, male kinship is one of the most important things in [00:42:00] life and it's especially important to people who genuinely feel alone. Sometimes, you know, being able to reach out to a like minded male friend. I'm, I'm incredibly lucky that I have a best mate.

[00:42:11] Carter: He lives in Sydney, unfortunately. So I only see him in person twice a year, but he's just a text or a phone call away. And you know, he's incredibly busy with his career. He works in movies. He's a special effects makeup artist and prop designer. 

[00:42:25] Martin: Yeah. Wow. 

[00:42:25] Carter: And I reckon I could message him right now. And before this podcast ends, I would have a response.

[00:42:30] Carter: You know, it's so important to find those pillars and find someone that you trust to be able to reach out to just to provide light in that dark room. Just know that you're never alone, and it is really, really hard to find those people, but they are out there. Yeah, we're 

[00:42:43] Martin: human beings. We need human contact.

[00:42:46] Carter: And if you, anyone listening, if you do feel alone and you don't have the luxuries of having friendships or anything like that, I'm here. I'm here. Just message me. Always here. 

[00:42:56] Martin: Yeah, likewise, buddy. 

[00:42:57] Carter: Likewise. Before we wrap up, mate, is there [00:43:00] anything else that you wanted to add? 

[00:43:01] Martin: No, mate. Uh, again, just wanted to say thank you so much for, for setting this up.

[00:43:06] Martin: I think maybe a lot of people have these ideas, like I should start a podcast, I should do something about this. And a lot of us really don't. I know that I have. But for you to have the courage to get it going, uh, it is incredible, mate. I'm really excited to do it. where it goes. And I'm actually excited to hear a little bit more about your story and how you went about getting your diagnosis, especially at an adult age.

[00:43:25] Martin: Because I think, I think a lot of people, if they really went through that same process, wouldn't have much problems getting a diagnosis. Like, I think we're, I think a lot of people are more spectrum y than they imagine, myself included. 

[00:43:36] Carter: I do have, uh, plans for, Our 10th episode to do a episode with my wife.

[00:43:42] Carter: So we'll definitely discuss a little bit more of the, you know, my personal life and her personal life and our experiences as parents together. So that's episode 10. Hopefully everyone sticks around and keeps listening for that. If they're interested in learning a little bit more about me. But you know, until then and beyond, I'll, I'll, [00:44:00] I'll keep just, uh, being the ear for other people, uh, which is, you know, the entire reason that I wanted to start this podcast, it was almost for selfish reasons.

[00:44:07] Carter: Really? I wanted to hear from other people so I could learn more. So I could just harness that information and pull all of these tactics and things in as a community. I could learn and, you know, fill my, uh, coping bucket, so to speak. I talk a lot about buckets and cups and filling and emptying and spilling and whatnot.

[00:44:26] Carter: It's, it's quite a visual thing, but I think everyone would get it. I mean, going right 

[00:44:31] Martin: back to the beginning, you know, if this, if a podcast like this existed a couple of years ago, uh, and I had someone, or I'd listened to someone say, go out and get help, like look for other people in a similar circumstance, make friends, tell your, tell your friends, tell your family, speak out more.

[00:44:48] Martin: It would have helped in so many ways. And the more access. People in this community have the resources like this, the better we're all going to be. I think it's massively important that it's an incredible thing you're doing, mate. So 

[00:44:59] Carter: [00:45:00] well done. mate. I truly appreciate that. I'm only one half of this podcast, so it wouldn't, it wouldn't exist without, um, without the people that are also brave enough to fill out that guest, uh, guest survey and share their stories.

[00:45:10] Carter: So. From the bottom of my heart. Thank you. I am honored for you to come on and share your journey. Truly, truly stoked to hear that Harrison is developing and coming along and his cover hasn't been blown yet. That's awesome. Tell him to keep it up and keep that little sneaky pen gun loaded and locked and ready to go.

[00:45:33] Carter: Mate, I'd love to have you on maybe next time we can organize for both you and your wife to come on. Yep. Obviously I'd love to get her, her viewpoints and her side of, of the story from then till now as well. For sure. Would love that, mate. Awesome. Alright, well we will keep in touch. Thank you again. Have a great remainder of your day, mate.

[00:45:51] Carter: Yeah, you too buddy. All the best. You too, byebye. See you man. Bye-Bye. 

[00:45:57] Intro: Wake up.[00:46:00] 

[00:46:03] Intro: To make it so my life's a better place. If there's one thing I see, then the only thing is me. Just knowing that I'm trying to make a change. Can I put it all on me? Responsibilities and all the other nonsense coming by repeatedly. If there's one thing I know, it's knowing. To let go, just knowing that I'm trying to make a change.

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